tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6579213173749170024.post2550067553451212434..comments2024-01-02T02:18:30.960-08:00Comments on Israel Thrives: On Progressive Jewish DhimmitudeMike L.http://www.blogger.com/profile/06450806807610560873noreply@blogger.comBlogger70125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6579213173749170024.post-86053944683540812862012-10-02T07:50:29.420-07:002012-10-02T07:50:29.420-07:00Correction:
* "...the first comment that a C...Correction:<br /><br />* "...<i>the first comment that a Christian commenter wrote to me there ( http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/09/palestinians-enraged-that-romney-told-truth-about-their-lack-of-interest-in-peace-call-him-ignorant.html#comment-905446 )</i>..."<br /><br />The correct link to that comment:<br /><br />http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/09/palestinians-enraged-that-romney-told-truth-about-their-lack-of-interest-in-peace-call-him-ignorant.html#comment-905528<br /><br />My response to that comment:<br /><br />http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/09/palestinians-enraged-that-romney-told-truth-about-their-lack-of-interest-in-peace-call-him-ignorant.html#comment-905664<br /><br />The response by that Christian commenter to that response by me to that comment by that Christian commenter:<br /><br />http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/09/palestinians-enraged-that-romney-told-truth-about-their-lack-of-interest-in-peace-call-him-ignorant.html#comment-905694<br /><br />A comment by another Christian commenter "admonishing" me and defending that Christian commenter:<br /><br />http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/09/palestinians-enraged-that-romney-told-truth-about-their-lack-of-interest-in-peace-call-him-ignorant.html#comment-905692Daniel Bielakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15792786894694523598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6579213173749170024.post-41789270270086930282012-10-02T07:41:01.996-07:002012-10-02T07:41:01.996-07:00"...*verbally* stand up for their own people...."...<i>*verbally* stand up for their own people</i>..."<br /><br />i.e:<br /><br /><b>Communicate <a href="http://danielbielak.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">the true factual history and current reality of the situation that Israel is in</a>.</b>Daniel Bielakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15792786894694523598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6579213173749170024.post-41725802268237066722012-10-01T02:14:53.834-07:002012-10-01T02:14:53.834-07:00"The closer you get to the Church of England ..."<i>The closer you get to the Church of England the uglier things seem to get... or so is my impression.</i>"<br /><br />In regards to the Protestant denominations of the Christian church, it's not just the Church of England that is that way. It seems to be the entire 'mainline' Protestant Christian Church -- in the U.S. and in other Western countries. Again, PLEASE SEE THE ARTICLES THAT I CITED IN MY COMMENT: http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/09/palestinians-enraged-that-romney-told-truth-about-their-lack-of-interest-in-peace-call-him-ignorant.html#comment-907446<br /><br />"<i>There are any number of progressive-left Jews who, for example, compare Likud to Hamas.</i><br /><br />"<i>How's that for dhimmitudenous thinking?</i><br /><br />"<i>These are people who go before the rest of the world on prominent progressive websites and quite literally suggest that the Likud is, more or less, the moral equivalent of Hamas.</i><br /><br />"<i>I've seen this on dkos and throughout the progressive-left blogosphere.</i><br /><br />"<i>It's a disgrace.</i>"<br /><br />Yes, I know.<br /><br />One of things that needs to be done to counter that is to join with, and present, MIDDLE EASTERN NON-JEWISH people (ex-Muslim, and truly "moderate" Muslim (non-Sharia-proponent Muslim (non-orthodox Muslim)), Middle Eastern people), who tell the truth about the situation that Israel is in, and who, thereby refute the lies that Jewish propagators of lies that vilify Israel tell.<br /><br />The other thing that needs to be done to counter Jewish people telling lies that vilify Israel is for other Jewish people -- most importantly, the leaders of Israel -- most importantly, the Prime Minister of Israel -- TO TELL THE TRUE FACTUAL HISTORY AND CURRENT REALITY OF THE SITUATION THAT ISRAEL IS IN.<br /><br />And about the term "dhimmitudenous"/"dhimmi". I wouldn't use that term to refer to Jewish people who libel Israel. The term dhimmi has a specific meaning. It is a reference specifically to a phenomenon occurant in Islamic society. Jewish people who libel Israel are doing so not out of Stockholm-syndrome-deluded deferring acquiescing appeasement toward solely, nor mainly, Muslims. Jewish people who libel Israel are doing so mainly out of Stockholm-syndrome-deluded deferring acquiescing appeasement toward non-Jewish WESTERNERS (and are doing so, as part of that, out of a form of egocentrism (in which one holds the view that: "'We' (I) are (am) so 'moral' (superior to 'others' (non-Jewish people)). And 'We' (I) need to prove, to 'ourselves' (myself), and to 'others' (non-Jewish people), how 'moral' (superior to 'others' (non-Jewish people)) 'we' (I) are (am) -- by 'criticizing' (libeling) 'ourselves' (my own people)."). And, as part of Jewish people who libel Israel doing so mainly out of Stockholm-syndrome-deluded deferring acquiescing appeasement toward non-Jewish Westerners, most of the Jewish people who are doing that are ethnically and culturally WEST-EUROPEAN JEWISH AND EAST-EUROPEAN JEWISH. Therefore, if I were to use a metaphorical term such as "dhimmitudenous"/"dhimmis" to refer to such people, I'd use, rather than the term "dhimmitudenous"/"dhimmis", the term "court Jews" or the term "Theobald Jews" ("Theobald (of Cambridge) Jews"). But I think it may not be beneficial to use any such terms to refer to such people. I would refer to such people with accurate descriptions of such people.<br /><br />But what needs to be done is to not pay attention to, and to not give attention to, such people.<br /><br />What needs to be done is to refute the lies that such people tell.<br /><br />What needs to be done to refute the lies that such people tell is to tell the truth -- the true factual history and current reality of the situation that Israel is in.Daniel Bielakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15792786894694523598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6579213173749170024.post-90195493675185101282012-09-30T23:25:25.135-07:002012-09-30T23:25:25.135-07:00Dan,
not all Christian denominations are friendly...Dan,<br /><br />not all Christian denominations are friendly toward Israel, clearly.<br /><br />I respect the work that Geoffff and Daphne and Shirl and Millett and others are doing on the "High Church" front. The closer you get to the Church of England the uglier things seem to get... or so is my impression.<br /><br />Is that correct? It seems to be.<br /><br />But this is what we need to hear more of:<br /><br /><b><i>Jewish people have to stand up for the human rights of their own people.</i></b><br /><br />There are any number of progressive-left Jews who, for example, compare Likud to Hamas. <br /><br />How's that for <i>dhimmitudenous</i> thinking?<br /><br />These are people who go before the rest of the world on prominent progressive websites and quite literally suggest that the Likud is, more or less, the moral equivalent of Hamas.<br /><br />I've seen this on dkos and throughout the progressive-left blogosphere.<br /><br />It's a disgrace.Mike L.https://www.blogger.com/profile/06450806807610560873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6579213173749170024.post-61693044240654785072012-09-30T23:13:48.250-07:002012-09-30T23:13:48.250-07:00"It is far better for diaspora Jews to encour..."<i>It is far better for diaspora Jews to encourage a friendly relationship with these people then a hostile one because such a friendship is mutually beneficial.</i><br /><br />"<i>They are, in fact, good people even if we do disagree with many of them on many things.</i>"<br /><br />I agree. And I apologize for the harshness of my previous comments to any Christians who are supporting Israel for right reasons.<br /><br />But, to clarify:<br /><br />What I was referring to by: "<i>current detrimental actions of the Christian clerical establishment</i>" that I expressed that I was pointing out was mainly the current racist bigoted antipathetic agenda and actions of the (clerical organizational establishment of the) 'mainline' Protestant denominations of the Christian church (not the Evangelical Christian church), and of the (clerical organizational establishment of the) Roman Catholic Christian church, toward Israel and the Jewish people.<br /><br />And how Christian commenters responded to that was a manifestation of the anti-Jewish racism (ignorance, bigotry, dishonesty, sanctimony) that is had by Christians.<br /><br />And what I mainly was trying to communicate in the comments that I posted on that post on Jihad Watch was about the anti-Jewish bigotry that is a deeply engrained part of culturally Christian-European -- Christian and formerly Christian -- culture. Anti-Jewish bigotry which is manifested by the Western Left's current racist bigoted indoctrinated ignorant attack on Israel and which is manifested by the larger Western establishment's racist war on Israel.<br /><br />I listed and cited information describing and documenting the Western establishment's racist war on Israel and the Western Left's current racist bigoted indoctrinated ignorant attack on Israel.<br /><br />Again, see my second to last comment there.<br /><br />http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/09/palestinians-enraged-that-romney-told-truth-about-their-lack-of-interest-in-peace-call-him-ignorant.html#comment-907446<br /><br />----<br /><br />And Jewish people have to stop groveling to others.<br /><br />Jewish people have to stand up for themselves.<br /><br />Jewish people simply have to tell the truth -- the true factual currently approximately 90-year history, and current reality, of the situation that Israel is in.<br /><br />Jewish people first have to acknowledge the true factual currently approximately 90-year history, and current reality, of the situation that Israel is in.<br /><br />Jewish people have to break out of their Stockholm syndrome and out of, as part of that, their egocentrism.<br /><br />Jewish people have to stand up for the human rights of their own people.<br /><br />Like normal human beings.<br /><br />Jewish people are normal human beings. Jewish people have to realize that.<br /><br />Jewish people have to realize that they -- their own people -- Jewish people -- are not the controllers of the behavior of genocidal anti-Jewish racists nor of any other people.<br /><br />Jewish people have to realize that they -- their own people -- Jewish people -- deserve to be treated with at least normal human decency by other people.Daniel Bielakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15792786894694523598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6579213173749170024.post-44702668465338242822012-09-30T22:26:30.113-07:002012-09-30T22:26:30.113-07:00Heya Puzz,
thanks for dropping in.
The truth, of...Heya Puzz,<br /><br />thanks for dropping in.<br /><br />The truth, of course, is that Evangelical Christians make up many millions of Americans and are, therefore, a very diverse group of people.<br /><br />They are also the most supportive people on the planet toward the Jewish state of Israel and for that I am greatly appreciative.<br /><br />Have you seen this, btw?<br /><br /><i><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WF6irnzAiI" rel="nofollow">Hava Nagila Texas Style!</a></i><br /><br />I love these guys! <br /><br />They crack me up, but they are unquestionably friends.<br /><br />Understand, of course, that I do not doubt that some Evangelicals hold malice toward Jews. The bottom line for me is that most are supportive of the Jewish state of Israel and hold friendship and respect toward the Jewish people... which is far, far more than I can say for progressives as a group, present company excepted.<br /><br />If you have any interest in Jewish-Evangelical outreach from the Jewish side of things (which I cannot imagine that you would) the go-to guy is Rabbi Yechiel Eckstein of the <a href="http://www.ifcj.org/site/PageNavigator/eng/USENG_homenew" rel="nofollow"><i>International Fellowship of Christians and Jews.</i></a><br /><br />As Jews begin to recognize that the progressive movement is toxic toward us, my recommendation is outreach toward the conservative Christian right. I think that we can do so in a manner that could encourage the reforms that are already starting in that movement.<br /><br />The younger generation, from my understanding, is far less hostile toward Gay people and developing an environmental consciousness in keeping with their Christianity and the notion of stewardship.<br /><br />It is far better for diaspora Jews to encourage a friendly relationship with these people then a hostile one because such a friendship is mutually beneficial.<br /><br />They are, in fact, good people even if we do disagree with many of them on many things.<br /><br />Peace to you, please, dear lady.Mike L.https://www.blogger.com/profile/06450806807610560873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6579213173749170024.post-40586824872650779902012-09-30T21:24:55.887-07:002012-09-30T21:24:55.887-07:00...But what most of them don't know, and, in s......But what most of them don't know, and, in some cases, have demonstrated an unwillingness to know, is about the Western establishment's racist war against the creation of, and, subsequently, against the existence of, the nation of the Jewish people, Israel, since several decades before the official refounding of Israel in 1948.<br /><br />I have listed and cited some information about this racist war being waged against Israel by the Western establishment in the following comment of mine that I listed previously.<br /><br />http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/09/palestinians-enraged-that-romney-told-truth-about-their-lack-of-interest-in-peace-call-him-ignorant.html#comment-907446Daniel Bielakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15792786894694523598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6579213173749170024.post-40941114635391861652012-09-30T21:20:05.092-07:002012-09-30T21:20:05.092-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Daniel Bielakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15792786894694523598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6579213173749170024.post-27711938365620009822012-09-30T21:11:37.545-07:002012-09-30T21:11:37.545-07:00...And I hasten to add that most people who are Ch......And I hasten to add that most people who are Christian who are defending Israel are doing so mainly for right reasons, and, in many cases, entirely for right reasons.<br /><br />They are defending Israel in that they are standing up for truth and justice.<br /><br />They are defending Israel in that they are standing up for human rights.<br /><br />Because, for reasons pertaining to their prior non-aversion toward Israel, they know essential facts about the situation that Israel is in.<br /><br />And many of them are defending Israel -- and all liberal democratic civilization -- because, for reasons pertaining to their prior non-aversion toward Israel, they know essential facts about the Islamic attack on Israel and on the West as a whole; They know essential facts about Islam -- authoritative orthodox Islam; They know essential facts about the Islamic supremacist political movement (which is a revival of authoritative orthodox Islam, and which began in the 1920's).Daniel Bielakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15792786894694523598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6579213173749170024.post-35219922771419171112012-09-30T21:07:46.172-07:002012-09-30T21:07:46.172-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Daniel Bielakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15792786894694523598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6579213173749170024.post-15303448954069221372012-09-30T14:27:24.268-07:002012-09-30T14:27:24.268-07:00If you read what Mets said, he accused REPUBLICANS...If you read what Mets said, he accused REPUBLICANS of " the only reason they're "pro"-Israel is because they want us to help them fulfill their apocalyptic fantasies."<br /><br />This is of course a ludicrous broad brush stereotype. If someone painted Jews that broadly we would all be outraged. <br />Doodadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03349941094682080146noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6579213173749170024.post-1904888533645536562012-09-30T13:52:52.174-07:002012-09-30T13:52:52.174-07:00puzzled,
Yes, of course, many evangelical Christi...puzzled,<br /><br />Yes, of course, many evangelical Christians have that motive as part of their motive in their "support of Israel". But, why is that important as to whether or not others believe lies that vilify the nation of the Jewish people, and why is that important as to whether or not others protect the nation of the Jewish people from genocide?<br /><br />During the holocaust -- which occurred just about seventy years ago -- it was mainly some few devout Christians who protected and saved the lives of Jewish people, and those few devout Christians did so largely out of their holding belief in certain theological tenets of the religion Christianity. Does that mean that it was not right to defend the Jewish people, and does that mean that the lies that the Nazis propagated against the Jewish people and which millions of people believed were true? No, it does not.<br /><br />And, I am completely aware of, and vexed by, the racist bigoted condescending attitude and agenda of Christians toward the Jewish people, and I am completely aware of the actions of the Christian church toward the Jewish people and Israel at the present time (and continously throughout the past two thousand years). I am Jewish.<br /><br />See what happened to me (and, previously, to another commenter) on the following post when I (and, previously, that other commenter) tried to point out certain current detrimental actions of the Christian clerical establishment: http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/09/palestinians-enraged-that-romney-told-truth-about-their-lack-of-interest-in-peace-call-him-ignorant.html<br /><br />My second to final comment there (which sums it up): http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/09/palestinians-enraged-that-romney-told-truth-about-their-lack-of-interest-in-peace-call-him-ignorant.html#comment-907446Daniel Bielakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15792786894694523598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6579213173749170024.post-51336700356012357322012-09-30T13:51:37.149-07:002012-09-30T13:51:37.149-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Daniel Bielakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15792786894694523598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6579213173749170024.post-41842358035162892132012-09-30T13:49:34.116-07:002012-09-30T13:49:34.116-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Daniel Bielakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15792786894694523598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6579213173749170024.post-45050627781880932052012-09-30T13:48:18.261-07:002012-09-30T13:48:18.261-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Daniel Bielakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15792786894694523598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6579213173749170024.post-76201329381010472882012-09-30T13:34:05.097-07:002012-09-30T13:34:05.097-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Daniel Bielakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15792786894694523598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6579213173749170024.post-35457472110075738302012-09-30T13:25:38.673-07:002012-09-30T13:25:38.673-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Daniel Bielakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15792786894694523598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6579213173749170024.post-46508433811857656662012-09-30T11:07:49.828-07:002012-09-30T11:07:49.828-07:00Why is what these Christians believe important in ...Why is what these Christians believe important in this matter? They are free to believe so long as they do not cause hurt to others. Where is their violence? Israel and Jews have no fear of these people from their beliefs.<br /><br />To say that even with the beliefs they do not support Israel for other reasons, just as many other Americans and even Obama, is just a simplistic, black and white view of the matter.<br /><br />These discussions are games between partisans that are most interested in winning. Even more than in truth. Mets is obsessed by such politics and everything he says seems tinged by the need to promote Obama. He is also prone to label, then demonize those with whom he does not agree. It's odd, to me, that many who advocate for tolerance are intolerant to others.<br />oldschooltwentysixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15672887176887940797noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6579213173749170024.post-40475581452188812892012-09-30T10:26:56.568-07:002012-09-30T10:26:56.568-07:00Mike...
I don't know Mets102 well, but bigote...Mike...<br /><br />I don't know Mets102 well, but bigoted is not a descriptor I'd ever attach to him. Nor is malicious.<br /><br />Conservative Christians (a group with which I have much more experience than I'd like to admit) really do support Israel because of their fascination with end-times theology. I realize this refutes your basic thesis, but read some of their writings...<br /><br />A few days ago you had the "I will Survive" Jesus video up with a comment about the reaction of Christians to this being very different than the reaction of Muslims to the current controversial internet video. It spurred me to google the reactions to "The Last Temptation of Christ"--I remember vividly the protests--the movie was banned in the city where I live because it was considered blasphemous. But in my googling I came across this: http://www.truthtellers.org/israel/lasttemp.html<br /><br />These are the people I knew, the people whose unwavering support for Israel was based on their desire to see their Jeebus return to earth. Your failure to see their motives as less than pure, while imputing malice and bigotry to well-meaning people like Mets102 is incomprehensible to me.<br /><br /><br /><br />puzzledhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11837081777373751288noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6579213173749170024.post-75321993396115823662012-09-30T08:51:10.506-07:002012-09-30T08:51:10.506-07:00Mets102 has a deep bigotry against conservative an...Mets102 has a deep bigotry against conservative and Evangelical Christians.<br /><br />I find it very, very unusual. They always say that Evangelical Christians only support Israel out of some heinous End of Days mythology in which Jesus will return and show Hitler and the Catholic Church just how the Jews should have been dealt with.<br /><br />He is projecting his own malice onto those people.<br /><br />The truth of the matter is that conservative Christians in the US support Israel because they recognize Israel as the source of their scripture.<br /><br />They also hold in mind Genesis 12:3<br /><br /><b>I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you.</b><br /><br />In this way progressive Jews (pretending to be liberals) confuse friends with enemies.<br /><br />I find it sad.Mike L.https://www.blogger.com/profile/06450806807610560873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6579213173749170024.post-60076511573613825952012-09-30T08:40:20.384-07:002012-09-30T08:40:20.384-07:00The Evil Republicans are to blame....
"I'...The Evil Republicans are to blame....<br /><br />"I've gotten into fights with friends... (86+ / 0-)<br /><br />and with people at synagogue who think that Obama is bad for a whole litany of reasons. It really annoys me because the Republicans are bad news, especially for Jews. They stand against pretty much all our values. And the only reason they're "pro"-Israel is because they want us to help them fulfill their apocalyptic fantasies.<br /><br />They're not friends to the Jewish People. They're "pro"-Israel for antisemitic reasons because they want us to all gather there, that will help bring Jesus' second coming and then we'll all either convert or we'll be killed and burn in hell. Yeah, I'm not exactly cool with that.<br /><br />Enacting our agenda requires winning elections. Oh, and me on Facebook.<br /><br />by Mets102 on Sat Sep 29, 2012 at 07:40:31 PM PDT<br /><br />[ Parent ]"<br /><br />http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/09/29/1138027/-Someone-said-they-feel-sorry-for-me-because-I-m-a-Jew-that-supports-Obama<br />Doodadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03349941094682080146noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6579213173749170024.post-64838679863591344152012-09-29T21:29:35.664-07:002012-09-29T21:29:35.664-07:00Stuart,
You have misunderstood my argument and ar...Stuart,<br /><br />You have misunderstood my argument and are thereby misrepresenting it.<br /><br />I do not claim that all Jews who accept a particular narrative are doing so out of psychological feelings of guilt.<br /><br />I am claiming that Jews who accept the "Palestinian narrative" are accepting a narrative of Jewish guilt. It is not that "dhimmis" feel guilty. It is that they believe that the Jews were guilty of great crimes against the local Arabs and that the local Arabs, the Palestinians, are largely the victims.<br /><br /><b><i>And as for Iran, I think it's Bibi whose not preventing it.</i></b><br /><br />This is what they call "diffusion of responsibility."<br /><br />The fact of the matter, of course, is that Israel is a tiny country surrounded by enemies while the United States is the most powerful nation on the planet.<br /><br />That's one fact.<br /><br />Another fact is that Barack Obama told the world that he would prevent Iranian nukes and all the evidence suggests that he is failing to do so. He is not preventing Iranian nukes. According to the IAEA, the Iranian nuclear program is advancing. <br /><br />If Barack Obama were actually preventing Iranian nukes then their nuclear program would not be advancing, but it is. Thus Barack Obama is not preventing Iranian nukes.<br /><br />Whether or not he will do so in the future is anyone's guess, but the evidence that we currently have strongly suggests that he is not.<br /><br />In any case, it is important to recognize that for many decades Arab and Soviet propaganda painted the Jews in the Middle East as the aggressors and a newly created subset of Arabs, the Palestinians, as the victims in this conflict.<br /><br />You can either believe that or not. <br /><br />Or you can partially believe it, or not.<br /><br />The historical record is pretty clear, though, that it was the Arabs who started the conflict and who absolutely refuse to end it.<br /><br />What we need now is for Jewish people to stand up for Jewish people. <br /><br />During the Oslo years it made sense to offer concessions because we all thought that we could, possibly, come to a reasoned end to hostilities. The conclusion that many of us are drawing now is that Oslo is dead and that there will be no peace because the Arab governments, and the Arab peoples, do not want peace. They clearly do not want normalization with Israel. <br /><br />What they want is victory.<br /><br />And that is not the fault of the settlers or the "hilltop youth." Nor is it the fault of Likud.Mike L.https://www.blogger.com/profile/06450806807610560873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6579213173749170024.post-72055277634478694292012-09-29T15:58:36.186-07:002012-09-29T15:58:36.186-07:00No Michael. If you are going to make the claim tha...No Michael. If you are going to make the claim that all Jews that accept a particular narrative are doing so out of guilt or Stockholm Syndrome, then you are claiming that Jews can't possibly come to that conclusion for the same reason that non-Jews do. I'd like you to respond directly to this. Is it genetic? How about converts? What about people like my friend, who didn't find out she was Jewish until she was 25? Had she accepted the narrative, would it have been as a result of guilt? Or would she have been able to formulate her opinion solely based on the information, however skewed, that she'd accepted as fact? <br /><br />And as for Iran, I think it's Bibi whose not preventing it. And Saudi Arabia isn't doing a very good job either. Pakistan might want to lend a hand, as could Great Britain. Seems they're all failing. They all should shout a little louder. That would work. With graphics. Lots of graphics. Show Iran exactly where that red line should be. In fact, a public display of red lines would certainly make Iran change course. Talk louder. Draw red lines. That the ticket. Stuarthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09405170992142157365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6579213173749170024.post-40506087473482004152012-09-29T15:35:17.835-07:002012-09-29T15:35:17.835-07:00Oh, and btw, your silly idea that we should "...Oh, and btw, your silly idea that we should "forget history" would, if taken to its logical conclusion, create people who are perpetual <i>tabula rasas</i>, incapable of making judgments or decisions upon anything because everything would always be brand-spanking new in their minds. <br /><br />It's a silly notion and you should reconsider it.Mike L.https://www.blogger.com/profile/06450806807610560873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6579213173749170024.post-40997577858716074132012-09-28T23:29:35.768-07:002012-09-28T23:29:35.768-07:00But that still doesn't answer the question. If...But that still doesn't answer the question. If a Jew thinks this way, it is guilt and Stockholm Syndrome. Yet not so if a non-jew thinks this same way? There is necessarily some force in place that is particular to Jews but somehow doesn't affect non-Jews? Genetic maybe? I hope you recognize the absolute absurdity of the charge. What is your motivation for pushing this argument other than to insult Jews? Stuarthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09405170992142157365noreply@blogger.com