tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6579213173749170024.post6990992582895970146..comments2024-01-02T02:18:30.960-08:00Comments on Israel Thrives: Debbie Wasserman-SchultzMike L.http://www.blogger.com/profile/06450806807610560873noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6579213173749170024.post-38370500847049700772015-10-02T20:52:11.953-07:002015-10-02T20:52:11.953-07:00Joseph,
I have to say that what I am hearing fro...Joseph,<br /> I have to say that what I am hearing from you, IMO, are a lot of excuses. Moral nations do go to war to save the many from the few, the innocent from the wicked. But we're not talking about a war, we're talking about the possibility of Iran's nuclear installations, which presumably are not sitting in the heart of downtown Teheran. Would all those deaths you fret over be more or would they be less than the military actions taken by Iran and through their proxies? More or less than Obama's bombing campaigns in Afghanistan and Libya? Would it be anywhere the scale of death and destruction we see in Syria? How about a single day with ISIS? Really, these do sound like excuses to me.<br />JeffwithaJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07073609950380822171noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6579213173749170024.post-50410081806427357742015-10-02T16:19:37.989-07:002015-10-02T16:19:37.989-07:00Joseph,
this is not a question that I fret about ...Joseph,<br /><br />this is not a question that I fret about for partisan reasons.<br /><br />I criticize the Left, but it is not because I come out of the Right. I am neither Republican, nor Democrat... although for many years I was a Democrat. And if you were to check me off box after box on ideologocal beliefs - social issues, tax codes and so forth - you would see very clearly that I am not a conservative, as we understand the meaning of that word in the US.<br /><br />Yet, I do not see how - despite the inclination of this president of the USA - that either the US or Israel can possibly allow Iran to go nuclear?<br /><br />"I suggested turning off the lights and electricity. He said that a moral nation just couldn't do that."<br /><br />Jewish ethics are important.<br /><br />Jewish ethics and morality represent the heart and soul of not only the Jewish people, but of the Jewish faith and even, in a significant measure, of western jurisprudence.<br /><br />Nonetheless, our highest duty is to maintain the well-being and ongoing viability of the Jewish State because it is only through maintaining that viability that the Jewish people can possibly survive in any meaningful way going forward.<br /><br />If the ayatollah's get the bomb, it means the end of Jewish self-determination and self-defense because the living or dying of Jewish people will no longer be determined by Jewish self-will, but by the very will of people who, for religious reasons, call for the death of the Jewish people through the annhilation of the Jewish state of Israel.<br /><br />I will never willingly accept such a thing.<br /><br />And that means, yes, at the end of the day, if we need to, we must use force to prevent an Iranian bomb.Mike L.https://www.blogger.com/profile/06450806807610560873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6579213173749170024.post-25537350653446999512015-10-02T12:47:47.397-07:002015-10-02T12:47:47.397-07:00I guess you're right. But here is the problem...I guess you're right. But here is the problem: The United States doesn't exist in a vacuum. Bush had sanctions and they were ineffective. During those sanctions Iran multiplied the number of centrifuges it had. It was only after Obama got other countries aboard that the sanctions had real effect. However, those sanctions could not last forever. There were other countries involved and they were satisfied with the agreement, therefore even if America rejected the deal, the sanctions would have the same, or less, effect than they did under Bush. And Mike, I knew a general in the Israeli army with whom I discussed the situation in Gaza. I suggested turning off the lights and electricity. He said that a moral nation just couldn't do that. The same is true about bombing Iran and the resultant deaths that would ensue.josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09057606413590949268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6579213173749170024.post-2474441325651575142015-10-02T07:21:57.818-07:002015-10-02T07:21:57.818-07:00To be plain, I would rather see the US or Israel (...To be plain, I would rather see the US or Israel (or both) bomb the holy crap out their facilities rather than see Iran gain nuclear weaponry.<br /><br />It is a gamble that we simply cannot afford.<br /><br />This would not mean war because, at the moment, Iran has no real capabiliy of taking the US on in a war.<br /><br />Obama seems intent on changing that, tho.Mike L.https://www.blogger.com/profile/06450806807610560873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6579213173749170024.post-46855150897577175252015-10-02T00:28:35.021-07:002015-10-02T00:28:35.021-07:00"If no deal had been reached, the sanctions w..."If no deal had been reached, the sanctions were going to fall apart and the only option remaining would have been war. "<br /><br />Could you now answer my question?JeffwithaJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07073609950380822171noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6579213173749170024.post-53159387567097855942015-10-01T13:54:05.149-07:002015-10-01T13:54:05.149-07:00Jeff,
I didn't say anything about war, what I...Jeff,<br /><br />I didn't say anything about war, what I said was that there was NO alternative. The Russians are far more concerned with the Sunni Chechnyans than with the Shiite Iranians. The Chinese are far more concerned with the Chinese Sunni Uyghurs that with the Shiite Iranians. I just think that you can't be completely myopic when analyzing these situations. We have to be concerned about ourselves, but we have to recognize that not everybody shares our concerns.josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09057606413590949268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6579213173749170024.post-31997400876097190112015-10-01T09:36:15.706-07:002015-10-01T09:36:15.706-07:00Glad you asked. Robert Theobald (1929-1999) was a...Glad you asked. Robert Theobald (1929-1999) was a futurist who talked about the economy of abundance. The problem was explained by Kevin Drum at http://www.motherjones.com/media/2013/05/robots-artificial-intelligence-jobs-automation The problem is that making an economy work when more and more of its citizens are unnecessary has not been addressed by any politician. josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09057606413590949268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6579213173749170024.post-54363811678859073712015-10-01T09:01:30.959-07:002015-10-01T09:01:30.959-07:00Joseph,
When you say the only alternative to the...Joseph,<br /> When you say the only alternative to the "deal" is war, just what exactly do you mean?JeffwithaJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07073609950380822171noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6579213173749170024.post-79126923312239399762015-09-30T23:38:36.490-07:002015-09-30T23:38:36.490-07:00You may very well be correct, Joseph, but just wha...You may very well be correct, Joseph, but just what is a "theobaldian"?<br /><br />Mike L.https://www.blogger.com/profile/06450806807610560873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6579213173749170024.post-410335648359575312015-09-30T21:15:49.026-07:002015-09-30T21:15:49.026-07:00Actually, I'm probably left of that. Economic...Actually, I'm probably left of that. Economically, I'm a theobaldian. But I like to think of myself as somewhat of a realist. The problem is that there was no realistic alternative to the deal. And it should be very clear by now that the Republican party is a fraud that is only interested in money for the rich. Everything else is for show. Halliburton, under Cheney, was selling to the Iranians despite the sanctions. HP, under Fiorina, was selling to the Iranians, despite the sanctions. I know she claims not to have known, but I'm not buying it. The right wing has sold out Israel for money in the past and will in the future. The best you can hope for if you put your eggs in the Republican basket is to scrambled eggs.josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09057606413590949268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6579213173749170024.post-28827132133540859602015-09-30T08:25:13.375-07:002015-09-30T08:25:13.375-07:00Joseph,
Obama told the world that it is was US po...Joseph,<br /><br />Obama told the world that it is was US policy to prevent Iran from gaining nuclear weapony.<br /><br />Then he told the world that it was not US policy to prevent Iran from gaining nuclear weapony.<br /><br />And now eveyone agrees that, unless we take the necessary steps to see that it does not happen, Iran will have the world's most dangerous weaponry atop Intercontinental ballistic missiles within 10 to 15 years on the outside.<br /><br />I am sorry, but this is simply unacceptable. If Iran were not a hostile player and the foremost spreader of terrorism around the world I might feel differently. But it is a hostile player - hostile to Jews and to Americans - and it is the foremost catapulter of terrorism around the world.<br /><br />All Obama has done is kick the can down the road and, in my opinion, made prospects for war more likely, not less.<br /><br />In any case, you strike me as a left-leaning American Jewish Democrat... not that there is anything wrong with that.<br /><br />Is that a fair assesment?<br /><br />I was a left-leaning American Jewish Democrat until I started complaining about the introduction of anti-Semitic anti-Zionists to liberal-left sewing circles and then they told me that I was no longer "Left," so I went away.<br /><br />But I continue to insist that this blog is a non-partisan blog and that all flavors should be given a taste.<br /><br />You seem like a good man and I hope that you continue to participate and challenge me when you think that I am wrong.Mike L.https://www.blogger.com/profile/06450806807610560873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6579213173749170024.post-87857571447790819262015-09-30T07:05:23.776-07:002015-09-30T07:05:23.776-07:00I'd be fine when the Iranians get The Bomb. Af...I'd be fine when the Iranians get The Bomb. After all, they're a threat to their own neighbors not us. If they nuke Athens or Sophia or Bucharest, so what? Empress Trudyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06073538968722986065noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6579213173749170024.post-44841191519812537912015-09-30T05:39:01.294-07:002015-09-30T05:39:01.294-07:00Again, the United States was not and is not the on...Again, the United States was not and is not the only party negotiating with Iran. Again, Obama and Clinton did a remarkable job to get the other parties to impose sanctions. Israel had always viewed Iran, not Iraq, as the major problem in the Mideast. It was Bush, not Obama, who went after Iraq and created the mess that is the current Mideast. If no deal had been reached, the sanctions were going to fall apart and the only option remaining would have been war. The American public isn't interested and that would not have happened. And I assume you have been following American politics and now realize that I am right about the Republicans.josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09057606413590949268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6579213173749170024.post-42476636546587949032015-09-29T20:32:00.070-07:002015-09-29T20:32:00.070-07:00The Iran non-treaty represents a true dividing lin...The Iran non-treaty represents a true dividing line.<br /><br />Le's not forget that our Constitutional lawyer-professor-president actually skirted the Constitution by simply declaring that the treaty with Iran was simply not a treaty, but a "deal."<br /><br />The bottom line is that Iran will shortly get the bomb because the Obama administration has no steal in its spine.<br /><br />Any westerner who is complacent about this is gambling with the lives of their family, friends, and children.Mike L.https://www.blogger.com/profile/06450806807610560873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6579213173749170024.post-78089627515375958052015-09-29T20:08:02.467-07:002015-09-29T20:08:02.467-07:00Interesting, but divorced from reality. Obama and...Interesting, but divorced from reality. Obama and Clinton did yeoman work to get the Russians, Chinese and Europeans to participate in the sanctions. It wasn't going to last forever. Kerry got about the best deal he could have given the situation. McCaskill checked with other governments to see if they would continue holding Iran''s money if the agreement were voted down. They wouldn't. The point is that, at this point, there really was no alternative to the agreement. And, by the way, for all its bluster, Iran had complied with all interim agreements. And do you now realize that the Republican party is truly built on hate and cares only about money for the rich? If you don't, you haven't been paying attention to the Republican candidates.josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09057606413590949268noreply@blogger.com