On Daily Kos the spreading of hatred toward the Jewish people, via the spreading of hatred toward the Jew among nations, is basically a daily occurrence. There have been some tensions, and some violence, recently in Israel due to a large influx of illegal immigrants from South Sudan.
This, needless to say, has the anti-Semitic Kossacks licking their chops because it means that they can use it as an excuse to spread hatred toward Jews:
We have created a bully, there are no consequences at all for any actions whatsoever. Kill an American citizen in cold blood? Well, that citizen was of Turkish descent so it doesn't matter. Illegal settlements? Well, that is unfortunate, here is some more financial aid. Invade another country for no discernable reason whatsoever? Congress stands up on its hind legs and cheers. Kill some Iranian University professors using car bombs? Good job! Discriminate against and attack women? Oh, just a few bad apples.
The above is a snippet of a comment from someone going under the name Orcas George. It serves as an excellent example of the kind of thing that progressives like to tell one another about the Jewish state of Israel. Let's unpack it a bit.
We have created a bully...
There are two related canards that progressives tend to indulge in when they spread malice toward the Jew among nations. One is that Israel is merely a puppet of the west, particularly the United States. The other is that the west is merely a puppet of Israel, particularly the United States. Although these are contradictory and false notions, this progressive-left racist employs both. When Orcas George says that "we" have created a bully, the clear implication is that the US controls Israel and has thus created it in its alleged bullying nature.
there are no consequences at all for any actions whatsoever.
Here the suggestion is that the US should take some action against the tiny state of the Jewish people. It's not enough that the Jews of the Middle East have been living under an Arab siege for almost one hundred years. No. What's needed is for the US to join with the Islamists in smacking around the Jews of the Middle East.
Kill an American citizen in cold blood? Well, that citizen was of Turkish descent so it doesn't matter.
This is a reference to one of the dead aboard the Mavi Marmara which was a Turkish vessel carrying both Jihadis and progressives seeking to violently confront Jews in an effort to break the blockade of Gaza. When the IDF boarded the vessel they were attacked with pipes and knives and in defending themselves nine people were killed. But for this racist Kossack Jewish self-defense represents a killing in cold blood. It's OK to attack Jews, but if a Jew defends himself he is clearly a racist.
Illegal settlements? Well, that is unfortunate, here is some more financial aid.
Here the notion is that if Jews dare to live where neither Mahmoud Abbas nor Barack Obama want them to live, i.e., in Judea, then they are illegitimate and "illegal." Non-Jews, and many "progressive Zionists," are very fond of demanding that Jews be allowed to live over here, but not over there. It's as if they still think that we Jews should be subject to the laws of 14th century Italy.
Invade another country for no discernable reason whatsoever?
The essence of the blood libel is the charge that Jews are inherently violent and, therefore, must be confronted and stopped. It is the source of countless violent pogroms against us and here it is repeated about Israel. The claim is that Israel starts wars for no reason whatsoever and the reason that this person can make this charge is because he does not consider violence against Jews, or violence against the Jewish state, to be violence at all. Thus if Israel attacks Gaza because of thousands upon thousands of rockets fired upon it, it represents "no discernable reason whatsoever."
Congress stands up on its hind legs and cheers.
Israel is both the American master and its slave in the fevered imagination of this particular racist. We created the "bully," even as Congress licks the Israeli boot. Either way it whips up hatred for the Jewish other.
Kill some Iranian University professors using car bombs? Good job!
The assumption here is that Israel is behind the assassination of Iranian scientists. But the writer gives no indication that Iran has threatened genocide against the Jews of Israel as it seeks nuclear weaponry. Of course Israel is going to do what it needs to do to prevent Iranian nukes. But, again, violence against Jews is not considered violence at all by western-progressive genocidal racists.
Discriminate against and attack women? Oh, just a few bad apples.
Women, of course, have more rights and greater civil liberties in Israel than in any other country in the Middle East and as much rights and civil liberties as any other country on the entire planet. Yet this racist Kossack wants to suggest that Israel is a misogynistic country while ignoring the outright atrocities against women committed by its Arab neighbor states.
Now, I have to go see about murdering some innocent trout, but this is the kind of hatred that is spread toward Israel on the progressive-left and, yet, against all reason and basic human decency, progressive-left Jews continue to support that movement.
This is a mistake in need of remedy.
Israel haters like this racist abound on dKos and similar places. It's the reason I call the place a swamp.
ReplyDeleteJews are the only ethnic minority on the planet who are constantly under attack within progressive-left venues like Daily Kos, yet we continue to support the movement and those venues.
DeleteThis is dhimmitude.
They always seek to rationalize their devotion to a political movement that acts directly against the well-being of the Jewish people or seek to minimize the problem by suggesting that it's really only a small number of crazies, despite the fact that Israel Hatred permeates the campuses and much of the mainstream left press.
Progressive. Jewish. Suckers.
Is DailyKos part of the mainstream left press? If so, then your argument fails. Does this Israel hatred permeate DailyKos? You see it often on the front page there? I don't. Do you see widespread support for hateful comments? I don't. The particular comment you cited had two recs last I looked. A couple dozen recommended the diary, but only two thought that particular comment worthy. Tens of thousands of users. And a couple people agree with the hate.
DeleteWhat of the rest of the comments there though, Stuart?
DeleteLike this moron, with her years-long history of occasionally popping into random I-P diaries to say stupid shit like this -
http://www.dailykos.com/comments/1094819/46209758#c4
Note that there are also infamous antisemites like BigAl and downsouth in there, trying to sound 'reasonable' in their anti-Israel fanaticism, and occasionally even succeeding in doing so, as long as one doesn't know of their long and sad histories, of course.
I agree with your point about the mainstream left, in and of itself, not being the problem, but I will always maintain that Daily Kos is a disgusting, worthless shitpile of hate and bigotry. I'll need much more evidence to indict the Left, but Daily Kos has long since passed the point of becoming a site which advances hatred, if even though that's obviously not its specific purpose.
Apologies, the full context of the above-linked thread on 'downsouth' is here -
Deletehttp://www.dailykos.com/comment/991095/42233999#c74
Yet that bigot apparently respected and 'trusted' on Daily Kos, and I'm not. Why?
Jay, I don't know the particulars of why you're not trusted and someone else is. My point was, the comments made by downsouth were his and his alone. They didn't garner a lot of support from anyone. I think most of them had 1 rec. Yours, fizzik's and others, had 5-10 each. Are these numbers important? I think they are when the claim is that anti-semitism permeates the site. There are hateful comments. And too many of them are tolerated (and I've explained why I think that is before). I'm just not convinced that it's a systemic problem.
DeleteIf it wasn't a systemic problem, we never would have been able to write the letter we did last year (which was published as a diary under Mets' handle, last June I think it was?), which contained literally hundreds of links to such examples (and believe me, for every linked comment which made it into that diary we left at least five more out simply due to the length it already was). After that, things slightly improved for maybe a week and a half, before falling right back to the way it was before. Daily Kos absolutely has a glaring bigotry problem, which it's been made clear will never be dealt with by its petulant brat of a proprietor. And it's not just antisemitism that is the problem, either. Ask the black posters who've left (or been banned) en masse at multiple points in the past, as well.
DeleteI agree with Stuart, but only because Kos decided to purge the subject from his site, so that only a few characters remain involved. He also purged others using the arbitrary "dickish" and "guest in the house" standards to permissible expression. By doing so, he dumbed down the site into a partisan echo chamber.
DeleteDaily Kos is a joke, and increasingly irrelevant when it comes to being useful as a tool. It focuses too much on the minutiae as if the monumental. It is rather hateful when it comes to treatment of different views, even as it calls out others for similar behavior. It too easily accepts and propagates the Party line, while claiming to be anti-Establishment.
It is populated by "activists" trying to outdo one another to behave like the prototype "Progressive" Democrat, and activists, by definition, are interested in relative truth. It is an Orwellian setting.
When Kos decided that anything could be a diary, the quality diminished even further.
I am a Democrat, yet feel repulsed by much of what I see at Daily Kos. Although the most blatant antisemitic actors are gone, there is still plenty of venom to go around, reserved for the "approved" enemies.
btw, Stuart,
Deletehow is it that if the left is friendly toward Israel that it is on the left that we see BDS?
how is it that on the most prominent netroots blog on the left, dkos, that Jews are the only minority who it is acceptable to harass via harassing the Jewish state?
How is it that the left, including "progressive-zionists" refuse to acknowledge the history of dhimmitude? Pallywood? The recent construction of Palestinian identity?
And, really, the whole long list of things that I have catalogued on the right of the screen?
The notion that Israel is a racist, colonialist, imperialist, apartheid state is a LEFT notion.
The left has betrayed the Jewish people and progressive Jews are almost entirely in denial.
Fortunately there is a small, but growing, number of Jewish people who recognize what is going on and are speaking out against it.
Our hope is with them, not with the Jewish detractors of the Jewish state.
People who are healthy defend themselves. What they do not do is join with their enemies in ripping themselves to pieces, which is precisely the stance of progressive-left Jews.
Mike,
Delete"The notion that Israel is a racist, colonialist, imperialist, apartheid state is a LEFT notion."
It has BECOME a LEFT notion.
It was propagated by the WESTERN ESTABLISHMENT GOVERNING SOCIAL CLASS OF THE U.S. AND OTHER WESTERN STATES toward the members of the Western political Left.
For fifty years.
(The governing establishment social class of the U.S. whose members propagated, and are propagating, the notion that Israel is an evil dangerous powerful state that should be destroyed (and the notion that the U.S is "supporting" Israel, and that the U.S.'s "supporting" of Israel is the cause of "international" "harm" done to the U.S.) is constituted by: the State Department, members of Republican (and, also, Democrat) U.S. executive administrations, the membership of the highest ranks of the CIA, members of the industrialist and financier wealthiest, most influential, social class of the U.S. (owners of the parent-companies of the U.S. mass media), "Arabist" (Western racist anti-Jewish) academics; and, involved with that, and as part of that, members of the Western governing establishment social class profiting from the Western petroleum trade with Muslim Arab states in the Middle East.)
This has to be understood.
(And, also, from another direction, the notion that Israel is "a racist, colonialist, imperialist, apartheid state" was propagated, by the KGB (Novosti "intellectual exchange programs", etc.), toward the members of the Western political Left.)
And, also, the members ("Right-Wing", and, subsequently, also, "Left-Wing") of the Establishment governing social classes (industrialist, financier, political, social classes) (and journalistic and academic social classes (subsequently mainly "Left-Wing" classes)) of Britain, and of France, and of Germany, have hugely engaged in an effort to propagate a perverse false notion that Israel is "an evil state that needs to be destroyed" ("a racist, colonialist, imperialist, apartheid state").
And, now, the members of the grass-roots "Conservative" movement in the U.S, in general, have taken up defending Israel as a cause, and have done so mainly for the right reasons -- and have done so because they have a cultural and ideological background that has caused them to not be entirely indoctrinated with lies against Israel, and also, and, as part of that, because the Left have been indoctrinated with lies against Israel and are verbally attacking Israel, and because, as part of that, the Left (along with, and, now, in many cases, as part of, the establishment governing social class) have wittingly and unwittingly allied with, and are wittingly and unwittingly colluding with, and enabling, the Islamic supremacist political movement -- a racist genocidally anti-Jewish, anti-democracy, strategically covert, and strategically overt, political movement originally allied with, and influenced by, the Nazi movement, and which is engaged in a covert and overt effort to destroy all democratic societies, and to establish supremacist imperialist totalitarian genocidally anti-Jewish authoritative orthodox Islam as the governing legal system for the whole world.
The Left have gone Nazi. Literally.
Furthermore:
DeleteMarxists / Socialists / Communists / National Socialists -- their ideologies are, essentially, identical to each other.
The racist genocidally anti-Jewish writings ("The Russian Loan", "On the Jewish Question") of Karl Marx (an ethnically Jewish-German genocidal anti-Jewish racist) are almost identically interchangable with racist genocidally anti-Jewish writings of Adolf Hitler.
And, btw, the German-supremacist, and imperialist, ("Ernst Moritz Arndt", "Schelling and Revelation") writings of Friedrich Engels, the colleague of Karl Marx, are, in essence, almost identically interchangable with German-supremacist imperialist writings of Adolf Hitler.
On The Jewish Question, by KARL MARX, 1843
"... Let us consider the actual, worldly Jew -- not the Sabbath Jew, as Bauer does, but the everyday Jew. Let us not look for the secret of the Jew in his religion, but let us look for the secret of his religion in the real Jew. What is the secular basis of Judaism? Practical need, self-interest. What is the worldly religion of the Jew? Huckstering. What is his worldly God? Money. Very well then! Emancipation from huckstering and money, consequently from practical, real Jewry, would be the self-emancipation of our time.... We recognize in Jewry, therefore, a general present-time-oriented anti-social element, an element which through historical development -- to which in this harmful respect the Jews have zealously contributed -- has been brought to its present high level, at which it must necessarily dissolve itself. In the final analysis, the emancipation of the Jews is the emancipation of mankind from Jewry. ..."
Schelling and Revelation, by FRIEDRICH ENGELS, 1841
"... This is our calling, that we shall become the templars of this Grail, gird the sword round our loins for its sake and stake our lives joyfully in the last holy war which will be followed by the thousand-year reign [thousand-year "reich"] of freedom. ..."
Haj Amin al-Husseini - The founder of the 'Palestinian movement'
Deletehttp://danielbielak.blogspot.com/2011/09/haj-amin-al-husseini-founder-of.html
Fatah-PLO-PA in their own words
http://danielbielak.blogspot.com/2011/09/fatah-central-committee-member-abbas.html
Why Are These Facts Not Well-Known?
http://danielbielak.blogspot.com/2012/04/why-are-these-facts-not-well-known_04.html
Jewish Stockholm Syndrome
http://danielbielak.blogspot.com/2012/03/jewish-stockholm-syndrome.html
Yeah, that's apparently how I got kicked out (although unlike others, I never even received from an answer from anybody as to why, almost certainly because there was never a justifiable reason). Seems you can't call a lying, useful idiot propagandist a lying, useful idiot propagandist. Or at least, not in their 'living room.' Of course, that's arbitrary too. If, as you pointed out, the diarist or the object of the venom is an "approved enemy." Then it's open season. I fully agree with that part, school.
ReplyDeleteUsing the I-P example, one simply has to make the smallest pro-I noises in an anti-I diary to be banned or permanently made a 'not trusted' user. While on the other end, one almost literally has to call Jews vampires or link to David Duke to get into trouble in a pro-I diarist's 'living room.' And even then, only if we make enough noise, as the leeway given the Israel haters is at least ten times that of the former example. ZOG implications are apparently okay, more often than not, as long as they aren't stated too explicitly. And if they ever are 'hidden,' 99 times out of 100 it's only done by the same group of about 12 or 15 of us.
Because it has been cleansed and speech is chilled, the site has lost value. I'd venture that 90% of the info is rehashed and/or venom directed at others who dare not toe the line to win the short-term, while pretending much loftier intentions.
DeleteThe few who participate regularly to spread the anti-Israel word at DKos have no influence outside their small circle in their surreal world at a web site that is shrill, arbitrary, and hostile to dissent.
With regard to Arab-Israeli issues, I agree with Mike that the overall environment is anti-Israel, at least for public consumption, and too often anti-Jewish. BDS and Apartheid Week are just two examples where there is tolerance of hatred on the left. It's an anti-Western thing going on, too, with Israel as the symbol. Thus, as Syria burns in hell, these voices of human rights remain silent. So long as they resist alongside suffering Palestinians, they have shown they sufficiently care for all human suffering on the planet. How else could a matter be worth that consummate attention? In other words, there is no semblance of proportionality at all, which at minimum is indicative of antisemitism.
"but I will always maintain that Daily Kos is a disgusting, worthless shitpile of hate and bigotry."
ReplyDeleteHear hear! You are right...on a scale of 1-10, you are right to the 10th place. Don't you ever tire of being so right?...and by that, I mean right as in "correct," not the evil political right. ;)
dKos sucks.
One thing to keep in mind about Kos is that they are very obdsessive about monitoring for and stamping out attitudes they don't like. A few months ago I UPRATED A COMMENT, and this was their response:
ReplyDelete////////////////////////////////
Warning from Admin at 2012-02-01 12:02:22
Don't uprate personal insults like "hapless right wing authoritarian slave to conventional wisdom". Next time you do so, I'll have to take action. And I'd rather not.
Confirm: (Acknowledge button here)
I understand the above warning (posting is no longer allowed until this is acknowledged).
////////////////////////////////
Needless to say, I never posted again, and I never will.
The point of the above is that Kos is fully capable of shutting down antisemitism and obsessive anti-Israelism if they cared to. They just don't care to.
"The point of the above is that Kos is fully capable of shutting down antisemitism and obsessive anti-Israelism if they cared to. They just don't care to."
DeleteBINGO! The question is why. I think I know and it doesn't look good.
Exactly. In fact, the opposite happened. He went and kicked out those of us who were fighting antisemitism there the loudest (he did the same to black posters who were pointing out instances of racism there, as well). And I never even got a warning.
DeleteAnd, yet, dkos is not nearly so bad in this regard as, say, the HuffPost.
DeleteI would very much encourage you guys to get with Matt and Zach at the HuffPost Monitor if you want to see a level of anti-Semitism that is just unbelievable.
The HuffPost makes dkos look like Arutz Sheva.
You are right Mike, the place has settled down considerably as we have discussed here. Huff post is hate on steroids.
DeleteAnd Jay, you are right.
Kos is nowhere near the worst lefty site for antagonism to Jews and Israel (as well as anyone who favors them). A current Firedoglake thread slams Elizabeth Warren as a traitor to progressism because she takes a hard line on Iran:
ReplyDeletehttp://my.firedoglake.com/davidswanson/2012/05/29/elizabeth-warren-vs-the-establishment/
Scroll down to the bottom for my comment on the whole sorry thread.
dhimmitude ?
ReplyDeleteYes.
DeleteDhimmitude was not merely a subservient and oppressive position on the social ladder, but a way of viewing oneself in a manner that justifies that subservient position.
Dhimmitude can only be in operation so long as the dhimmi believes himself unworthy of self-support.
In other words, a Jewish dhimmi is the Jewish equivalent of an "Uncle Tom."