"pre-reformation Islam" is the best description I've encountered yet. It has the potential of reaching anyone who's left of the hard right who still has an open mind.
O/T, but now it's not only Pat Buchanan who supports Chuck Hagel for Secretary of Defense. It's also All Star 9-11 Troofer and all-around shiny happy antisemite Ray McGovern.
Also, I suppose the main thing I take away from this is that in a few years, potentially up to 60 million Americans will believe Tupac was murdered by a Zionist conspiracy.
The problem is not Islam, per se, but political Islam or Islamism.
If western Christians were attempting to create theocracies then they'd be the problem, as well. Fortunately that's not what they are up to and even the most devout American Evangelicals do not wish to replace the Constitution of the United States with the New Testament.
Shirlee argues that Islam is a political ideology masquerading as a religion. The thing of it is, prior to the Enlightenment all religions were political ideologies for the simple reason that there was no distinct separation of church and state. All that there was was the religion itself, upon which the state and the politics were grounded.
The same is true of Islam to the extent that it refuses to accept the separation of church and state.
Most American Muslims do, in fact, accept that separation and consequently do not represent a threat to American Jews.
The problem with Islam in the Middle East, and increasingly in Europe, is that they refuse that separation and thereby ground their political cultures within Sharia, which is precisely what is happening in Egypt and throughout the Arab Spring countries.
The Obama administration is advancing political Islam and thus undermining the separation of church and state throughout the Middle East.
This is hysterically ironic for a president of the United States who once taught Constitutional law, but it clearly shows us that this president believes more in the multicultural ideal than universal human rights.
CazJanuary 4, 2013 6:25 PM What squeamish hair-splitting projection!
It's Islam, stupid!
What is this thing "political Islam", that can be separated from Islam the religion? What's this projecting of a Western-Democratic construct - separation of church and state - onto a lost in ancient-times Middle Eastern religion, which has banned revision to it's own texts for hundreds of years?
That's one wild and whacky premise for analysis, a major misappropriation of the analytical prism.
Islam can and should only be discussed on it's own terms, not from the vantage point of white, middle class, capitalist democracies - of which Islam could not be more divorced if it tried.
geoffff
OK. I put these upfront. I'll post them on Mike's blog as well in the hope of continuing the conversation. One of the most frustrating and dangerous things about this war is that no one can agree on who is the enemy. Therefore there is no agreement on how to fight the war or even if there is a war.. The enemy of course is playing that for all it is worth.
The rulers and gang chiefs who ride this ideology are not stupid men. They are mostly psychopaths which is both their strength and weakness but they have keen tactical intelligences. That combined with their ruthlessness and complete freedom from concepts such as the truth means they frequently outflank the West..
This is why they might win.
Their sheer inability to grasp ordinary human empathetic emotion and motivation and to accept physical reality always brings them down in the end usually to be replaced by another psychopath. In the meantime the human damage they do can be beyond the reach of the language.
I agree with the British Freedom Party guy. They could bring down everything. Civilisations do come to an end.
You do not have to be that old to see how far the West has retreated and so quickly especially in the last thirty or so years. Since the Islamic Revolution.
Geoff
ReplyDeleteA political ideology masquerading as a religion
"pre-reformation Islam" is the best description I've encountered yet. It has the potential of reaching anyone who's left of the hard right who still has an open mind.
ReplyDeleteO/T, but now it's not only Pat Buchanan who supports Chuck Hagel for Secretary of Defense. It's also All Star 9-11 Troofer and all-around shiny happy antisemite Ray McGovern.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I suppose the main thing I take away from this is that in a few years, potentially up to 60 million Americans will believe Tupac was murdered by a Zionist conspiracy.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you, Geoffff.
ReplyDeleteThe problem is not Islam, per se, but political Islam or Islamism.
If western Christians were attempting to create theocracies then they'd be the problem, as well. Fortunately that's not what they are up to and even the most devout American Evangelicals do not wish to replace the Constitution of the United States with the New Testament.
Shirlee argues that Islam is a political ideology masquerading as a religion. The thing of it is, prior to the Enlightenment all religions were political ideologies for the simple reason that there was no distinct separation of church and state. All that there was was the religion itself, upon which the state and the politics were grounded.
The same is true of Islam to the extent that it refuses to accept the separation of church and state.
Most American Muslims do, in fact, accept that separation and consequently do not represent a threat to American Jews.
The problem with Islam in the Middle East, and increasingly in Europe, is that they refuse that separation and thereby ground their political cultures within Sharia, which is precisely what is happening in Egypt and throughout the Arab Spring countries.
The Obama administration is advancing political Islam and thus undermining the separation of church and state throughout the Middle East.
This is hysterically ironic for a president of the United States who once taught Constitutional law, but it clearly shows us that this president believes more in the multicultural ideal than universal human rights.
That's where the tension lies.
Right at the crux between the two.
Mike
ReplyDeleteSome comments from my blog
Shirl in OzJanuary 4, 2013 3:47 PM
Mike
You are wrong very wrong. It's Islam full stop.
Read the Hadith. Read the Reliance of the Traveller which is the Bible of Muslims. All 336pages
www.shafiifiqh.com/maktabah/relianceoftraveller.pdf
ReplyDelete
CazJanuary 4, 2013 6:25 PM
What squeamish hair-splitting projection!
It's Islam, stupid!
What is this thing "political Islam", that can be separated from Islam the religion? What's this projecting of a Western-Democratic construct - separation of church and state - onto a lost in ancient-times Middle Eastern religion, which has banned revision to it's own texts for hundreds of years?
That's one wild and whacky premise for analysis, a major misappropriation of the analytical prism.
Islam can and should only be discussed on it's own terms, not from the vantage point of white, middle class, capitalist democracies - of which Islam could not be more divorced if it tried.
geoffff
OK. I put these upfront. I'll post them on Mike's blog as well in the hope of continuing the conversation. One of the most frustrating and dangerous things about this war is that no one can agree on who is the enemy. Therefore there is no agreement on how to fight the war or even if there is a war.. The enemy of course is playing that for all it is worth.
The rulers and gang chiefs who ride this ideology are not stupid men. They are mostly psychopaths which is both their strength and weakness but they have keen tactical intelligences. That combined with their ruthlessness and complete freedom from concepts such as the truth means they frequently outflank the West..
This is why they might win.
Their sheer inability to grasp ordinary human empathetic emotion and motivation and to accept physical reality always brings them down in the end usually to be replaced by another psychopath. In the meantime the human damage they do can be beyond the reach of the language.
I agree with the British Freedom Party guy. They could bring down everything. Civilisations do come to an end.
You do not have to be that old to see how far the West has retreated and so quickly especially in the last thirty or so years. Since the Islamic Revolution.