Fred Maroun argues:
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| Fred Maroun, a Lebanese friend of the Jewish people living in Canada |
- Israel is so much superior morally to its enemies that the claim is almost pointless.
- Israel shouldn't need to have the most moral army in the world. Implying that such a high standard is placed on Israel is itself immoral.
- Israel faces threats greater than practically any other country. It shouldn't be tied down to a moral standard the no one else, even countries with practically no threats against them, has to uphold.
- The moral standard that we should be talking about is the moral standard of Israel's enemies. It is abysmal. That's the moral standard that requires raising.
- Supporting Israel should never depend on that claim being true, and I don't expect Israel to uphold such an extremely high standard. Because if Israel fails as a result of trying to uphold that standard, the overall moral standard in the Middle East will suffer enormously as a result.
- Using the phrase, “most moral army” is a terrible debating tactic. Once said, it has to be proven, which it can’t. It’s a way to turn a feature into a flaw. (Thanks Dave Levin)
- Expecting Jews to uphold a far higher moral standard than non-Jews, especially compared to those who are trying to kill them, is immoral and antisemitic."
You can prove the IDF is better than other armies at reducing the ratio of non-combatant to combatant deaths, but it always involves talking about the number of people killed. Once the focus is on the dead, you lose the argument.
ReplyDeleteFix the 2nd sentence in paragraph 4.
It's a good and concise piece of writing, Mike.
It was written by Fred Maroun.
DeleteHe is an interesting and intelligent guy and a friend of the Jewish people of Lebanese Arab descent.
Sorry, I was positively bleary eyed when I saw it last night.
DeleteStill, it is concise and direct. I like it. Thanks for posting it.
In the meantime, in critically important news. Trump has stabbed the Kurds and Israel in the back. But why would that be important to anybody here?
ReplyDeleteYou're here, aren't you, free to make idiotic accusations.
DeleteStabbed in the back? An interesting choice of words. Isn't that what the Fuehrer said about the WWI armistice?
DeleteI know it must come as a shock to you since up until now you have been such a vocal cheerleader for the President's Syria policy.
But the question is not what you say about it, but Israel thinks about it. For all you know, which usually comes to nothing, it might be to Israel's advantage, or it might not. We simply do not know yet. We don't know what consultations and communication have gone on.
Joseph, why not cut to the chase and say whatever Trump does is bad. A couple of weeks ago he was purportedly the lap dog of Saudi Arabia who of course wants the US to stay in Syria.
Oh, but of course you're right on the money when you tell us that nobody here cares about policy toward Israel. That much is obvious, huh?
But it is great when you report in, because it means I need not bother watching MSNBC and CNN and may content myself with some old movies.
Try reading the New York Times or Times of Israel. Both had long articles on Israeli military leaders response to the move. It seems that Putin, Erdogan and Iran are thrilled. The only Israeli columnist who doesn't express shock at the move is Caroline Glick and she says it might not be bad if Trump follows up with certain moves, but moves which I assure you he will not make. He could tell Erdogan not to massacre the Kurds, but he won't, because he's a wimp. He could tell Putin to control Assad and safeguard the anti-Assad Syrians, but he won't, because he's a wimp. He could tell the Iranians that they can't move arms to Hezbollah, but he won't because he's a wimp. And by the way, Erdogan has already announced that he's going to attack the Kurds, our best allies in Syria. Who will ever believe Trump now?
DeleteGloating because you have an excuse to go after Trump. It's just about Trump. The hate is palpable. As bad as he may be, Trump haters are worse, and the greater threat in the end because of the lengths they will go to stamp out the evils of Trump and irredeemable deplorables.
DeleteNot to mention, your heroes were far from are paragons of virtue and strength. In Syria, Libya, Iran, and elsewhere. Then it did not matter. The double standard reeks. Perhaps you recall that Obama named Erdoğan among his trusted friends. That Obama said to Medvedev (Putin) that after the election he would have more flexibility. That he drew a red line in Syria. That he called ISIS the jv. That he blamed Benghazi on a filmmaker who he then jailed. That he capitulated to Iran. Do you know what a wimp actually is?
When the tables are turned and the next Democrat is attacked like Trump, as illegitimate and a tyrant, what will you say then? If Trump was as bad as you and others say, do you believe you would be even be allowed to say it, let alone dominate the culture with it?
For these reasons, and a slew nor mentioned, you comment is bogus.
https://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/US-withdrawal-from-Syria-hurts-Israel-and-helps-Erdogan-Shaked-says-575154
DeleteIsrael is better served w/o the false pretense that the US will ever physically stand with them on the ground. That will never happen. There is no physical presence in Syria that can ever be used to 'help' Israel. As far as the Kurds are concerned, that's an Iraqi and EU problem. We can't be the 'nation builders' any more.
DeleteJoseph,
DeleteI am completely willing to criticize Trump where I think he is wrong, as with any US President, such as the one old school mentioned above, the one who strengthened Iran and let the Russians back into Syria, embraced the PLO (and let's face it, Hamas), chastised Israel at every opportunity, and a dozen other things inimical to Israel's interests and the interest of Jews and IMV of the United States and liberalism generally.
But what happens when Trump reveals his peace plan and Israel and the rest of us don't like it? What happens when it includes the redivision of Jerusalem? Will the NYT, CNN, the Brits and the rest recant their testimonies that he gave all of Jerusalem to Israel, and which they hysterically lied about? What will they hate most, Trump, the plan, Israel or a combination of all, and in what progressive intersectional order will they do that? Inquiring minds want to know.
"The American decision to withdraw troops from Syria is a significant event, but there’s no need to overstate it."
DeleteIDF Chief of Staff Gadi Eisenkot
Unless one views things through the lens of TDS. Then it's okay to overstate and blatantly engage in double standards.
Shaked also said:
"just as we know how to defend ourselves now, we’ll know how to deal with the new situation."
And:
"The president of the United States, Donald Trump, is a great friend of Israel, and this administration is, I think, the friendliest administration there’s ever been."
You'd think, however, from listening to those with TDS, that Trump is worse than Hitler.
If you're going to quote Shaked, “This step doesn’t help Israel. It strengthens Erdogan, an anti-Semitic war criminal who carries out massacres of the Kurdish people, and does so with a wink from the international community.”
DeleteThe international community? Not your kind of people?
DeleteShe also said that Israel will deal with it. But, of course, despite what Eisenkot said, you must overstate it.
DeleteStarting with your first comment, you showed that it's really about Trump, who you hate, along with most anything or anyone connected. Rather than complain about the intolerance of Trump and his supporters, perhaps you should exhibit some tolerance of your own, rather than hypocrisy.
Saudi Arabia and UAE sending troops to help Kurds in Syria
Deletehttps://legalinsurrection.com/2018/12/saudi-arabia-and-uae-sending-troops-to-help-kurds-in-syria/#more-268765
The post indicates that the US is also sending the Kurds weaponry, and that diplomatic actions are occurring behind the scenes regarding Syria and Afghanistan.
So, perhaps the hand wringing is for naught and this is more thought out than first raised. If true, however, and if this regional approach is effective, it will still not satisfy some people, who seem driven by a different motivation, to reverse the election. And then they boast to be democrats, and to lecture others about things moral and right.
Harvard Law Professor Alan M. Dershowitz said:
ReplyDelete“There is yet a third strain of the current virus of anti-Semitism, this one even more difficult to diagnose.
Its danger lies in its subtlety, its pervasiveness, and its acceptability at all levels of our society.
This is a phenomenon familiar to all of us, yet difficult to articulate and expose: the singling out of Jewish institutions and especially Israel for special scrutiny, and the application of a double-standard to Jewish things and persons.
This phenomenon, which currently has no accepted name, assumes a variety of forms, but its most obvious manifestation is the special and often gloating attention paid by the media, [and] by intellectuals, and by the government to any deviation by Israel, no matter how trivial, from the highest norms of humans rights, civility, and sacrifice.
Though Israel may be deserving of criticism, what is missing is the comparable criticism of equal or greater violations by other countries and other groups. This constant, often legitimate criticism of Israel for every one of it deviations, when coupled with the absence of legitimate criticism of others, creates the impression currently prevalent on university campuses and in the press that Israel is among the worst rights violators in the world.
We have all heard that phrase repeated many times.
It is not true, but if it is repeated often enough,
it takes on a reality of its own.”
SOURCE: Chutzpah by Alan M. Dershowitz
(chapter 4, page 119) published in year 1991
by Little Brown & Co ISBN: 9780316181372 ISBN: 0316181374
According to Jordanian law, selling land to
ReplyDeleteJews is a crime, PUNISHABLE BY DEATH.
The Palestinians imprison their own people,
for selling land to Jews.
Both of these laws are obviously RACIST,
yet nobody complains about them: not the
United Nations, not the European Union,
not the college and university professors,
not the students, not the mainstream news media,
not the Hollywood actors, not the USA Congress,
not the foundations or non-profit organizations,
and not the Leftist Jews.
If the Jordanians or Palestinians would
make it illegal to sell land to Mexicans
or African-Americas, then the result would
be an overwhelming firestorm of international
outrage from all the institutions that
I mentioned in the previous paragraph.
===================================
At a 1937 [CE] lecture to the British Foreign Ministry,
the King of Saudi Arabia said:
“Verily, the word of Allah teaches us,
and we implicitly believe this…
for a Muslim to kill a Jew…
ensures him immediate entry into Heaven…”
SOURCE: The Holocaust’s Most Vicious Killers
by Edwin Black, The Jewish Press, 2011/1/21, pages 1 and 91.
===================================
Harvard Law Professor Alan M. Dershowitz said:
“We need a new term to describe this phenomenon, this double-standard, this super-scrutiny of things Jewish, this singling out of Israel.”
SOURCE:
Chutzpah by Alan M. Dershowitz (chapter 4, page 121) published in year 1991 by Little Brown & Co ISBN: 9780316181372 * ISBN: 0316181374
===================================
“Because their legitimacy is linked to their image as champions of Islam, Saudi leaders step gingerly in the world of Islamist politics and have been hesitant to oppose jihadist causes.”
SOURCE: Al Qaeda, the Islamic State, and the Global Jihadist Movement:
What Everyone Needs to Know (chapter 6, page 123) by Daniel Byman,
Oxford University Press, year 2015, ISBN: 019021726X (paperback)
ISBN: 9780190217266 (paperback) ISBN: 0190217251 ISBN: 9780190217259
===================================
Pittsburgh Synagogue Massacre Aftermath:
https://shilohmusings.blogspot.com/2018/11/massacre-aftermath.html
===================================
Time Magazine vs Truth:
https://shilohmusings.blogspot.com/2018/08/time-magazine-vs-truth.html
===================================
Who are the Palestinians?
https://shilohmusings.blogspot.com/2018/06/who-are-palestinians.html
===================================
How Torah Can Defeat Terrorism:
https://shilohmusings.blogspot.com/2017/08/defeat-terror-with-torah.html
===================================
Did Captain Kirk believe in negotiating with terrorists?
http://shilohmusings.blogspot.com/2016/08/can-jews-learn-from-captain-kirk.html
===================================
How to Pray for Tzahal-IDF:
http://shilohmusings.blogspot.com/2016/09/how-to-pray-for-tzahal-idf.html
===================================
Rambam Rejected Childless Messiah:
http://shilohmusings.blogspot.com/2016/08/rambam-rejected-childless-messiah-by-mr.html
===================================
Was Daniel an Orthodox Jew?
https://shilohmusings.blogspot.com/2018/03/if-daniel-were-alive-today.html
Thank you General Patton! :0)
ReplyDeleteI tend to agree with you, Trudy. If the Israelis want peace they must defeat their enemies. I have no doubt that they would have done so long ago were it not for the Euros, the UN, and the Democratic Party.
ReplyDeleteWhoa! Yellow vest protesters in Lebanon!
ReplyDeletehttps://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/dec/23/yellow-vests-protest-beirut-lebanon/
Our brothers and sisters in the UK are under significant threat, which means we are all under threat.
ReplyDeletehttp://david-collier.com/corbyn-supporters-attacked-website/
I don't know how financially stable many of you are, but please consider making a donation to David Collier's work exposing the sick antisemitic cult of Corbyn's Labour.