Wednesday, July 11, 2018

The Rabbanut and the Waqf

Sar Shalom

I'll take it as a given that the readers are all familiar with the agreement that was struck between an Israeli government committee and representatives of Reform and Conservative Judaism for a mixed prayer area at the Western Wall only for the agreement to be nixed when chareidi parties threatened to bring down the government if it went into effect. Without getting into the merits of the deal, why are the chareidim so opposed to the deal? Would the area that would have been allocated for mixed prayer have in any way have reduced the ability of those who insist on separate-gender prayer space to pray at the Wall? Obviously this is not the case. The reason is that the chareidim view prayer at the Wall in a manner contrary to halacha as a defilement of the sacred space. They did not describe those who pray in mixed gatherings as trespassing "with their filthy feet," but the non-Orthodox Jews who thought they had an agreement would have justification to read that into them.

Similar to mixed prayer being restricted at the Wall, the Waqf goes apoplectic about Jews simply setting foot on the Temple Mount, let alone praying. This raises the question about why the Waqf, and the rest of the Palestinian national movement (PNM) is so against Jews at their most sacred site. No one can seriously claim that Jews walking around the site, even in substantially larger numbers than at present, impinges on Muslims praying at the Dome of the Rock or Al Aqsa. Same with Jews praying on the mountain. So why does the PNM oppose Jews' presence on the mountain so vehemently, referring that presence as defiling the site with their "filthy feet?" The simplest explanation is that Jews ascending and praying on the mount would remove one more manner in which they lord Islam's superiority of Judaism. The thing is that the preeners who notice and excoriate that behavior in the chareidi establishment regarding non-Orthodox Judaism will circle the wagons to assert that the Waqf has a legitimate interest in doing so with all Jews.

22 comments:

  1. Reform Jews ally themselves with the anti-Israel Far-Left and the anti-Israel Intersectionality Movement, so it is correct to publicize these short blog articles that expose Reform Judaism:

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    Rambam Refutes Reform Judaism:

    https://shilohmusings.blogspot.com/2017/11/rambam-vs-reform-judaism.html

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    Why Barak Hullman left Reform Judaism and became Orthodox:

    http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/why-reform-judaism-doesnt-work-wont-work-and-how-to-fix-it/

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    How a Reform Rabbi Became Orthodox (true story):

    http://shilohmusings.blogspot.com/2016/07/how-did-reform-rabbi-become-orthodox-jew.html

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    Reform Judaism vs. Real Judaism:

    http://shilohmusings.blogspot.com/2016/05/guest-post-real-judaism.html

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    Sephardic Jews REJECT Reform Judaism:

    https://shilohmusings.blogspot.com/2017/07/sephardim-reject-reform.html

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    How Reform Jews CHEATED on the Pew survey:

    http://shilohmusings.blogspot.com/2016/06/reform-jews-cheated-pew-survey.html

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    Quick quote from Famous Jewish
    mega-donor about Jewish Continuity
    :


    https://shilohmusings.blogspot.com/2018/02/mr-sy-syms.html

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    Rabbi Samson Rafael Hirsch vs Reform Judaism:

    https://shilohmusings.blogspot.com/2018/03/rabbi-hirsch-vs-reform.html

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    NEW: Reform and Conservative are in Self-Destruct Mode:

    www.jewishworldreview.com/0618/glick061118.php3

    https://cross-currents.com/2018/06/12/not-your-bubbes-huc/

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    Last but not least, the Reform Jews strongly opposed efforts to save European Jews from the Holocaust during World War II. Those rescue efforts were led by Orthodox Jews, who the Reform Jews considered to be behind-the-times and an embarrassment. The Reform Jews got what they wanted:
    the rescue efforts failed.

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    1. If not for Reform Jews, there would be no Israel. And Maimonides was also a scientist. If he were alive today, he would not reject science for inerrancy. He would be much closer to Reform than Ultra-Orthodox.

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    2. Speaking for people of the past is always speculation. However, he almost certainly would reject anyone saying that mitzvot are anything but obligations. That would rule out Reform for him.

      Reform Jews were also not part of the establishment of modern day Israel. In America today, they would be called unaffiliated.

      While joseph's assertions about Reform here are either demonstrably wrong (as in their role in modern Israel) or very probably wrong (how Rambam would view them), Mr. Cohen's assertion that they opposed the rescue of European Jews at a minimum is an overly broad generalization. Stephen Wise strongly lobbied Roosevelt first for unlimited Jewish immigration in the 1930's and for boycotts of German goods. I cannot rule out that there were individual Reform leaders who opposed efforts of that rescue, but I am not aware of any.

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    3. Now you can believed in the inerrancy of the Torah if you like, but Maimonides was clear that some parts of it can only be understood figuratively, not literally. Modern Reform does not reject obligation, but rather simply understands that some are unattainable. The real difference, as I see it, between Reform and Orthodox is that Reform does not believe that the entire Torah, written and Oral, were given to Moses at Mt. Sinai. Since the overwhelming scientific evidence is that Judaism started with David, who was a likely a local warlord, the odds of Orthodox being correct is zero. That does not demean Judaism, it enhances it.

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    4. By the way, Eddie Jacobson was a Reform Jew.

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    5. This is a very interesting thread.

      Thank you, guys.

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  2. I could support groups like 'women of the wall' if they were actually sincere. I don't see it though. I see them as pushing a political not a religious agenda. They don't appear to be concerned for a place of prayer so much as a place to push mixed marriages, gay marriages, nude marriages, transgendered marriages and all the other items in the basket. And when they've exhausted that then they will turn over their 'space' to the Arabs who can then attack Jews there.

    Moreover, Masorti and Reform are tiny in size compared to the US. They are a fringe in Israel, no? By analogy should we in the US cater to the Karaites? Jews for Jesus? Neturei Karta? They too maintain they are the 'real' Jews but they're not. They're a fringe.

    No one is saying that Reconstructionist Jews in Israel can't have their own space to have their peculiar rites and agendas. Just not right there, at that one spot. If religious consistency and heritage are so important to them why don't they adhere to most of the religion?

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    1. According to 2016 Pew polling, Reform Jews comprise about 3 percent of Israeli Jews.

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  3. If you are trying to expose a double-standard at work, you've succeeded.

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    1. Thank you. This isn't the place to argue the merits women's tefilla groups or mixed-prayer space at the Wall. However, those who are outraged by the opposition to those two items seem to lack outrage at the Waqf's actions. Exposing a double-standard is a good summary.

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    2. I expect the Waqf to follow the standard lunatic Nazi playbook that Arabs use. The haredi for their part at least try to follow the laws set before them. Like it or not they still have a legitimate role to play in Israeli society. It's too late to second guess Ben Gurion when he gave them passive power in being exempt from many national legal requirements with the thinking that they'd never be more than a tiny fringe element. That was Ben Gurion's arrogance and there's nothing to be done about it now. But the Waqf can be told to hop up and down on hot spikes and impale themselves. The haredi, not so much. It's the classic western legal bully's pulpit - pick on the people who follow some or most of the laws and ignore the monsters who ignore the law.

      Moreover, if you're looking for liberals to mentally fuse or equalize 'palestinian' religious fanatics with Jewish religious fanatics, you're wasting your time. Left wing Judaism can be summed up with 'Any ism but Judaism'.

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  4. After the Six Day War, Dayan agreed to let the Waqf control the Temple Mount. According to Dr. Mordechai Kedar, this was because the Waqf let Dayan steal artifacts, something Israel would not allow. But since Dayan did allow the Waqf to maintain control, he should have demanded that Jews be allowed to pray not only on the Mount but at the Al Aqsa mosque as well. People that pray together tend not to kill each other.

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    1. Reportedly, Dayan's response to having control of the Temple Mount was "what do we need this Vatican for?" Jews and Muslims praying together doesn't seem to keep them from killing each other at the Tomb of the Patriarchs.

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    2. I'm just repeating what Kedar told me. And Jews and Muslims both pray at the Tomb of the Patriarchs, but they don't pray together.

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    3. Yes because asking the Arabs politely not to be genocidal maniacs worked so well before,

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    4. "After the Six Day War, Dayan agreed to let the Waqf control the Temple Mount. According to Dr. Mordechai Kedar, this was because the Waqf let Dayan steal artifacts..."

      I respect Professor Kedar, but if you are correct, I very much hope that he is mistaken in any such cut-and-dried assessment.

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    5. That's what he told me. He has a facebook page, a web site and, I'm sure, an email address. You can contact him and ask him but I'm sure he'll give you the same response he gave me. Actually, I think he lectures he America frequently and will probably be in California this year. He is quite approachable and you can easily verify my recollection. That said, I cannot verify his accusation, I wasn't there and haven't read enough about the incident to really either dispute or ratify Kedar's opinion. I just know he seemed to know what he was talking about.

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  5. The priorities some express here seem to resemble https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WboggjN_G-4 . Certain commenters seem more intent on "winning" internecine battles with other Jews than with defeating our common enemies, and by other Jews I don't mean Jews who side with our enemies like JVP and J-Street.

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    1. I certainly hope you're not talking about me. I go to all kinds of synagogues, Chabad, Chernobyl, Modern Orthodox, Traditional Orthodox, Reform, and Conservative. I went to a synagogue in Curacao that had a Reconstructionist Rabbi, but I think it was a Reform service. But it isn't liberal Jews who reject Orthodox, it is the Orthodox who treat Reform and Conservative as second class citizens.

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    2. You have stand up with the courage of your own convictions and sign on for A side, any side. If your side is an areligious form of quasi-Judaism that tosses the actual Judaism over the transom so it can be a political SLW organ then that's the side you chose and good for you. But don't call it Judaism. Call it activism or something else.

      I'm willing to wait out the Reform and Masorti Jews. Seriously, I am. Because Masorti is dying and will disappear shortly and Reform, as I noted already - is a strainer. As many leave as join but to keep the supply of new entrants coming they constantly have to water down the standards. Many Reform shuls have NO educational program. Those children will learn nothing. So when they finally get their Bnai Mitzvah you will never see them again, or if you do it has nothing to do with Judaism.

      Intermarriage is fine, atheism is fine, no education is fine. It's all good. I know of Reform shuls that have non Jews on their board. They couldn't even be bothered to convert per the weak standards of Reform. So left to their own devices, they will disappear soon too. I supposed the buildings they attend will be called synagogues and they'll have a Magen David on the wall but no one will know what it means or why it's there. You can see the same thing in North Africa and Spain, Churches and Mosques that have Jewish iconography and the occasional Hebrew carved into the stone.

      All I'm asking is that you drop the brand. Call yourselves something else.

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    3. I am a Jew, I don't pick sides. This is exactly what Sar was complaining about. We shouldn't talk about good Jews, mediocre Jews and poor Jews. We need all the Jews we can get.










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    4. Except they're not really Jews. The Jews who stayed behind with Pharaoh were Jews too. Chaim Rumkowsky was a Jew. So what. Worse, they were a danger.

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