Saturday, April 23, 2016

Daily Kos and the hatred for "Zionists"

Michael L.

The genealogy of this blog ultimately goes to Daily Kos.

I started my blogging career on Daily Kos maybe ten years ago. At some point I left and became a front-pager on Maryscott O'Connor's now defunct My Left Wing. After My Left Wing proved itself comfy-cozy with anti-Semitic anti-Zionism I faded out and basically started up this joint.

But in truth, I owe many Daily Kos people and many My Left Wing people a debt of thanks for teaching me that the western-left is entirely comfortable defaming not only Israel, but "Zionists" (by whom they largely mean Jews).

The first thing that any progressive-left Jewish person needs to understand is that their own political movement does not care in the least about the well-being of the Jewish people who they conceive of as privileged and white. Hard-right anti-Semitic conservatism, of the David Duke variety, is irrelevant in the United States today. Anti-Semitism in the United States is primarily a left-wing phenomenon and it is instructive to read what the grassroots political people say about Israel and "Zionists" at places like Daily Kos, the Huffington Post, and the Guardian.

A recent piece by someone who goes under the name of "bobdevo" is illustrative.

In Hillary attacks Bernie for not being a good enough Jew bobdevo tells us that Hillary Clinton published a piece in the Times of Israel on the eve of Passover.

In that piece, she wrote:
Protecting allies and partners like Israel is one of the most solemn duties of any Commander-in-Chief. Yet others in this race suggest we must remain ‘neutral’ in order to negotiate... (emphasis bobdevo's)
For no elaborated upon reason, bobdevo believes that somehow this means that Clinton was attacking Sanders for not being "a good enough Jew."

The stupidity in such a conclusion is profound, but I am less concerned about bobdevo's attack on Hillary for allegedly attacking Sanders than I am in the nature of western-left discourse vis-à-vis the Jewish State of Israel.

The first thing to note is that bobdevo refers to the Times of Israel as "right-wing."

This is false.

Any fair-minded individual familiar with the scope of the Jewish press - or even the press out of the United States - would recognize that the Times of Israel is decidedly moderate. They publish people on both the Left and the Right. Further, chief editor David Horovitz - not to be confused with American conservative editor David Horowitz - is a moderate and reasonable individual.

So, why label the paper "right-wing."

I would submit to you that very many people on the Left think that any form of "Zionism," whatever they may mean by that word exactly, is "right-wing." All forms of struggle for ethnic self-determination and autonomy are welcomed on the Left, as part of the larger coalition, with the sole exception of the movement for Jewish self-determination and autonomy which is deemed right-wing racist. As an Israeli newspaper with a Jewish Israeli publisher it is hardly surprising that the editorial stance of the paper favors Israel's ongoing existence as the national homeland of the Jewish people.

For this it gets labeled by bobdevo as "right-wing."

The piece, itself, is not worthy of much consideration because there is "no there, there."

It is in the comments where we learn how so many of our fellow "liberals" feel about "Zionists" and Israel.
Ion 
As a Jew (who lost family members in the Holocaust), I find Hillary’s blog in a right wing Zionist forum fucking disgusting. 
She should be ashamed.
zionistNotice the use of "Zionist." They have constructed a negative resonance around this word such that anyone, or anything, that is Zionist is considered bad on a visceral level.

And, needless to say, As a Jew (who lost family members in the Holocaust), I find Ion's blog in a left-wing anti-Zionist forum even more disgusting.

Also, of course, we have the ever-popular "as-a-Jew" theme wherein Israel hating Jews give non-Jews the permission to likewise hate on Israel. After all, if I, as-a-Jew despise Israel why should not anyone else?

Finally, notice the shaming admonishment.

This is very common among anti-Semitic anti-Zionist Jews. Arabs and progressives have taught many progressive-left Jews to be ashamed of Israel, and her supporters, and therefore to remain in their good graces they wear that shame on their sleeves. In this case, of course, Ion is projecting the shame onto Hillary Clinton but it is the same principle.

Further comments under the diary, not surprisingly, descended into the usual mud-slinging between Hillary supporters and those that feel the Bern.
Karl Rover

Also, Israel is a state, and the Palestinians are stateless. That kind of makes the whole “protecting Israel” thing sound like the worst Likud propaganda.
Not only are the "Palestinians" without a state, they do not even have an organic nationality.

The "Palestinians" were constructed by the PLO, with some advice from the Soviets, and came into being for the sole political purpose of undermining Jewish self-defense and autonomy toward the end of the twentieth-century. I, myself, am slightly older than "the Palestinians."

Karl Rover thinks that "protecting Israel" - which is to say, protecting the Jewish people from never-ending Arab aggression within memory of the Shoah sounds "like the worst Likud propaganda."

Right. For the Jews of Israel to wish to defend themselves from the Car Ramming / Stabbing / Knife Intifada or Iran's stated genocidal ambitions is merely Israeli propaganda. Karl Rover seems to suggest that Jews do not really care about protecting their children.

And they wonder why the Democratic Party is drizzling support among Jews.
MargaretPOA

Israel does not = Judaism or vice-versa. I really don’t like Clinton’s unequivocal support for Israel’s government and their apartheid policies...
While it is, of course, true that Israel does not equal Judaism, it is also true that Israel is an ancient name for the Jewish people, as a whole, and for most Jewish people the rise of the State of Israel has a redemptive meaning. It is for this reason that the vast majority of Jewish people throughout the world relate to Israel. By falsely accusing Israel of apartheid, she seeks to rob Jewish people of our dignity thereby reducing us to the status that we had prior to World War II. The apartheid slander is meant to rob us of self-respect, the will to self-defense, and to whip up hatred among others toward us.

That's really all that it is and we know beyond a shadow of a doubt that it represents a lie.

Israel is surrounded by apartheid states, but is not one.

36 comments:

  1. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2016/04/21/calling-out-the-holocaust-is-the-logical-end-point-of-the-lefts/

    From Brendan O'Neill in the Telegraph.

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  2. I have often referred to dKos as an antisemitic swamp for obvious good reasons. It has drifted WAY left and that of course is where a lot of antisemitism has always lived. One example being the far left soviet/fellow travelers' success with the "Zionism is Racism," meme.

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  3. There's ONE Jewish state. ONE!!!!!! To be against it is to be defacto antisemitic/anti-Jew. This ain't rocket science.

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  4. I think Hilary was referring to Donald Trump, not Bernie Sanders. Trump is the candidate famous for saying he'd be neutral. Bernie's schtick is that the Palestinian Arabs, aka "the Palestinians" have a Rodney Dangerfield problem which is holding back all that "peace." "They don't get no respect."
    Yes, bobdevo IS stupid! Then again, so is Bernie with his "consensus" over the Gaza war regarding "proportionality." If he doesn't know the meaning proportionality with regard to international humanitarian law, then he shouldn't be running for Commander In Chief of the US Armed Forces. Then again, he isn't a Democrat, so he shouldn't be running for the Democratic nomination anyway. Maybe this silly old man should run for president of the Daily Kos. I'll bet he'd win.

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    Replies
    1. It wasn't that long ago that I found him vaguely amusing, but I had an affection for the guy like an old uncle.

      Sadly, that gentle feeling of fondness is going away now.

      I certainly had no intention of advocating for the guy. In fact, at this point, I have no intention of advocating for any candidate for the presidency.

      I just hope that he leaves the national stage before I start to seriously dislike the guy.

      Delete
    2. "Why is Sanders Taking Foreign Policy Advice from Someone Who Suggested Israel—Not Assad—Gassed Syrians?...."

      http://www.tabletmag.com/scroll/197963/why-is-sanders-taking-foreign-policy-advice-from-someone-who-suggested-israel-not-assad-gassed-syrians

      Delete
    3. Doodad,
      WIlkerson's craziness doesn't end there. He also says that Netanyahu has plans for taking over parts of Lebanon, Syria, and all of Jordan, and because of this, and the fact that x hundreds of millions of her neighbors don't like her, she will be destroyed. Then he goes on to say that we need to distances ourselves from Israel due to this liability. My guess is that has been his attitude his entire career.
      But Tablet needs to "ask" why Bernie Sanders would take advice from him, whereas they can't give enough hit pieces on Trump - some of them have some merit while others are totally ridiculous. And, no, I'm not supporting Trump. But you do see what I'm getting at, no?

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    4. Mike,
      I do certainly understand the temptation to see Bernie Sanders as our good guy Jewish uncle from Brooklyn. I have Marxist uncle, (he wouldn't call himself that, but it's undeniable), whom I was always very fond of - but he's harmless.

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    5. Bernie Sanders is not harmless. He is actually quite awful. In every respect. Most hard-line ideologues who seek power are people you should be very wary of. He's the American Corbyn. He hasn't changed his opinions or re-evaluated anything about the world for his whole adult life.
      And, like many others of his political type, he's utterly delusional. That's not charming, it's frightening.

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    6. Re: Sanders

      http://www.tabletmagcom/jewish-news-and-politics/200643/bernie-sanders-jewish-problem


      And, another good piece well-worth reading:

      http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/7920/palestinians-peace

      Really interesting article.

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    7. k,
      I must be losing my memory. I read your link and then posted it below. lol

      The Tablet article was good too. I shared that with a few people.

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    8. Jeff,
      Present:

      http//www.theonion.com/article/worldwide-jewish-conspiracy-worried-it-came-down-t-34815

      Very funny.

      Delete
    9. k,
      No, Sanders is not harmless. My uncle is. He lives in PEI Province in Canada where he traps rats on his property in cages and then drives them to an open field and let's them go.

      Delete
  5. MargaretPOA does not = smart
    MargaretPOA = ignorant as well as illiterate, and I'll bet she also = middle class and white
    Whereas Karl Rover thinks he's being cute with that name, but doesn't understand that his moniker is what is commonly used to get a dog to fetch, which leads me to the heavy suspicion that this cast of "intellectuals" has Pavlov laughing in his grave.

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  6. These babbling psychotics think everything to the right of Haaretz and the Israeli communist party is 'right wing'. DKos & all the Nazis in their wake want people to believe that somehow an English language newspaper that at best, 5% of the Israeli population follows is a consensus.

    But these dead enders know as much about Israel as they do farming on the moon. Everything they've had to say in the past 45 years could be reduced to 3 bumper stickers and an index card.

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  7. A discussion between 2 of my favorite authors, Pascal Bruckner and Nick Cohen

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7DhCg9KwZg

    41 minutes

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  8. Thanks for that link, Trudy.
    Those are two of my favourite authors, too.

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  9. Btw, off topic:
    For anyone who is interested: The presidential elections in Austria, 1st round - second round is towards the end of May- have seen the leader of a far-right party with roots in neo-Nazism win. That's a huge shock. The polling at the moment would suggest his party would win a general election. There is a general election in 2018. Apparently, 51% of young men voted for him. The Austrian presidency is a largely symbolic post, but the trends this result are suggesting are deeply concerning.
    I don't have a specific link, but it's worth looking at. Europe is going in a very alarming direction. There should be similar concerns about the rise of the populist far-right in the Nederlands and Sweden. Both countries have elections in the next couple of years.

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    Replies
    1. The only Austrian tourists I got to know ( a group of young men we met at a pub) turned out to be a gang of Jew hating Nazis.

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  10. So, why label the paper "right-wing."

    Because they're to the right of the good little dhimmis at Haaretz.

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    Replies
    1. It goes with certain territory, the Corbynistas have taken to calling The Guardian, "a right-wing rag."

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    2. I know small children who can tell left from right. The Corbynstinians can't figure it out with a map. The British public needs to perform an intervention as fast as Obama can say "the right side of history."

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    3. Jeff,
      First: No-one can do anything faster than Obama saying " the right side of history."

      Second: I would say this is extraordinary, but actually, it's just another normal day in the life of the UK Labour party:

      http://order-order.com/2016/04/26/labour-mp-israelis-should-face-transportation-out-of-the-middle-east/

      She's going to apologize, though, so that's all right, then.
      Probably not a story on the BBC, I should think.

      It's really dreadful here.

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    4. Oh, and the above member of parliament now serves on Labour's antisemitism panel. To investigate the increase in hatred towards Jews.
      Not a parody. :-(

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    5. Sorry to go on..but: Anyone who's interested should go to order order.com Guido Fawkes blog for continued coverage of Naz Shah story. It's truly appalling. One Labour MP is comparing what she said to Eichmann. Every day in the UK you can wake up to delightful stuff like this. It's perfectly normal now.

      Delete
    6. http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/7920/palestinians-peace

      Delete
  11. Thanks for writing this wonderful piece. It was linked by ElderofZiyon. I used to be regular on dkos, but got banned for being too pro-Israel.

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  12. OT
    Dershowitz on Obama's hypocrisy:

    http://www.israelhayom.com/site/newsletter_article.php?id=33329

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  13. http://abuyehuda.com/2016/04/the-answer-to-globalized-jew-hatred/

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  14. you shoulda seen the hissy fit over this piece someone wrote: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/04/01/1508878/-Hillary-AIPAC-and-the-Democrats-Silent-Majority to get the user off, they made him into an "Islamophobe" for downthread posts.

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  15. Hey you guys.

    I am having computer issues, so I will be and out over the coming days.

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    Replies
    1. Resolve them quickly. You're needed here! ;0)

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    2. Y'know, Maryscott O'Connor would go months on end without dropping by her own blog and, yet, it staggered on for years.

      Ask Paul, he'll tell ya.

      btw, I got a facebook friend request yesterday from Isi Liebler.

      I have to tell you, that kind of made my morning!

      I love that guy.

      Delete
  16. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/05/01/1522019/-Why-do-so-many-progressives-dislike-Israel-while-giving-monstrous-regimes-a-pass

    good read!

    Tho I'm amazed how people miss an easy retort to "we give Israel money," which would be "when you live in the jungle, you need to adapt to the jungle and use jungle tactics sometimes."

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    1. And, needless to say, the US does not just hand away cash to Israel. That 3 billion a year - which I think that Israel should forego - is basically a US weapons industry jobs package.

      In any case, I have to say, Kumar, that Jews throughout the world are getting mighty fed up with the never-ending aggression against us by the Arabs, as well as the duplicity and hypocrisy of the West.

      The Oslo Accords, with its attendant two-state solution, are dead.

      There is no faith in the "peace process" left and there shouldn't be. It could not be more obvious that what the Arabs want are the Jews dead or gone. There's no negotiating with that attitude. There is no negotiating with a people who send their children out onto the streets with hand-axes for the express purpose of killing Jews.

      Israel needs to get tough.

      It should retake the Temple Mount and establish democratic access for anyone to go up there and do whatever they want, including pray, so long as no one else is harrased or harmed.

      Israel also needs to harshly crack-down on the Stabbing Intifada.

      They should aggressively deport the immediate family of all terrorists. The Palestinian-Arabs need to learn that if they insist upon raising their children with contempt for Jews, which the Arabs have been doing for 1,400 years, there will be serious consequences.

      Very serious.

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