Thursday, January 7, 2016

What would happen if Israel fulfilled what the Left insists is all that the PNM wants?

Sar Shalom

One moral narcissist with whom I've regularly sparred before had a simple answer to the question of what the Palestinian national movement (PNM) wants and what it would do if Israel were to withdraw to the armistice line as "international law" demands. His response was that he did not know what the PNM wants, but that if the PNM were to use its newfound sovereignty over the territories to launch a war to take all of Israel, that Israel would be justified in responding in kind and waging defensive war against Palestine. This is a very facile argument and thus very dangerous because the peaceniks would be inclined to latch on to it for the same reasons that people latch on to Donald Trump's call to bar immigration by Muslims. To defuse this threat, it would help to explain what would be a realistic possibility of the PNM's response to Israeli withdrawal and why even with Israel being "free" to respond, withdrawal would be imprudent without some reason to believe that that would not be the PNM's course of action.

When the moral narcissists say that Israel would be free to defend itself against a Palestine waging war to take over the rest of the land, they are probably thinking of a conventional invasion. One thing we can be certain of is that there will be no conventional invasion because the PNM knows that they have zero chance of prevailing in such a conflict. Rather, what is more likely is that the first action of the government of the new State of Palestine would be to amass an arsenal of rockets and mortars to be stored in Tulkarem, Qalqilya, Ramallah and Abu Dis. With full control over the Jordan Valley and the roads from the Valley inland, this would not be difficult. Once they accumulate a sufficient arsenal, they will look for a pretext to use this arsenal in a war of terror. The mortars would be launched from Qalqilya against Kefar Sava and from Abu Dis against western Jerusalem while the rockets would come from all the list population centers listed against the Jerusalem-Tel Aviv-Netanya corridor.

This is where the moral narcissists' claim that Israel would be free to defend herself will break down. Not only will the mortar/rocket attacks ensue from the aforementioned places, we can be certain the ordnance will be stored in and launched from schools, hospitals and apartment complexes. This would leave Israel the choice of turning the other cheek as mortars and rockets rain down on the core of her population or counterattacking against the schools, hospitals and apartment complexes launching the rockets and mortars which will inevitably produce piles of telegenic dead Palestinians. Will the international potentates have any more sympathy for Israel when this happens than they did when it happened in Gaza City and Khan Yunis?


  1. No need to guess. We already have Gaza as an example. Now let's rush to surrender Golan to ISIS. It's our moral obligation.

  2. Precisely,

    some of us learn from the past and some of us absolutely refuse to do so.

    As Sar Shalom writes:

    "Not only will the mortar/rocket attacks ensue from the aforementioned places, we can be certain the ordnance will be stored in and launched from schools, hospitals and apartment complexes. This would leave Israel the choice of turning the other cheek as mortars and rockets rain down on the core of her population or counterattacking against the schools, hospitals and apartment complexes launching the rockets and mortars which will inevitably produce piles of telegenic dead Palestinians."

    Those of us who come out of a pro-Jewish / pro-Israel perspective are intimately familiar with what Sar Shalom is discussing and sadly familiar with the fact that our western-left friends seem incapable of acknowledging the obvious.

    Prior to the latest Gaza conflict, Hamas spent a few years lobbing Qassams and Katyushas into the neighborhoods of S'derot and Ashkelon in southern Israel. As little Israeli kids, including little Arab-Israeli kids, were growing up with Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD), morally self-righteous western-progressives did not care in the least.

    But, as you know, as soon as Israel stood up to defend itself by firing into Gaza to stop these assault, they were immediately accused, before the day was even out, of conducting a malicious genocide of the "indigenous population."

    1. Speaking of conducting a malicious genocide:

      This story only made the television news here in the UK last night. The silence has been deafening up to now.

      Hezbollah are participating in this.
      Along with the Assad regime. The Western media tend to be on Hezbollah's side.
      If you google, you can see horrific pictures of what is happening to these people.

    2. Kate,

      it gives away the hypocrisy of those who cry out against Israel but could hardly care less about mundane atrocities like 40,000 starving Syrians in the town of Madaya:

      "Forty thousand civilians in the southwestern Syrian town of Madaya, near the Lebanese border, have been slowly starving as the result of a six-month siege by Hezbollah, a U.S.-designated terror group. Yet, major U.S. news outlets largely have failed to cover the encirclement of what in more peaceful times was a well-known mountain resort."

  3. Whether they admit it to you or not the sole goal of any of this is Shoah. That's the endgame they seek. In those terms, precisely.

  4. "Massive funeral of terrorist attended by thousands, including Hamas terrorists waving knives, machetes, and firing automatic weapons....Amid the gunfire, and while waving knives and machetes, the masses chanted: "this is how Mohammed taught us! How to slaughter the Jews! Wave the swords! We are the people of Mohammed Deif!"

    FFS in the nation's capital? Who allowed this atrocity? No more returning of terrorist bodies. Potter's filed burials for the lot. No wonder Israel is so prone to attack allowing this shit.

    1. Jeff, I am simply mindboggled that the authorities could allow such thing in the nation's capital of all places. Terrorist guns in Jerusalem? That's an bloody invasion. Cologne syndrome I guess.

    2. That's insane.

    3. Hey, Alexi,

      look what the cat drug in!

      Nice to see you here, man.

      You are a friend of the family and always welcome.

  5. If your left-leaning moral narcissist acquaintance wants to side with the blood-soaked Palestinian Arabs, that's his/her choice. As long as he/she knows (and understands that we know) that this is a war against the Jews based on Arab/Muslim racial and religious supremacism that doesn't pass the most basic universal humans rights sniff test. If he/she wants to side with genocidal Arabs against the Jewish People then just come clean so we will all have an idea of what he or she really stands for, i.e., come out of the closet already, we're tired of waiting for the propaganda lies to soften everyone up for the big kill. Just be forewarned, we will shoot.

    Oh, and BTW, the way your friend is willing to put the Israeli public in harm's way, so cavalierly, for some grand experiment we already know the answer to makes me want to kick his/her ass in front of the entire food co-op membership.

    Lastly, handing over the Jordan Valley? As they say in New York, "fuhgeddaboudit!"

    1. I'm not sure how much of an acquaintance I'd call this moral narcissist. I know his screen name and I know that he has worked in both law and the financial industry from comments he's posted in other threads. He is very sanctimonious on Very Serious opinion about international law. Other than that, I do not know him.

      As to the Jordan Valley, we need to present a reason why it cannot be ceded as long as the currently prevailing ideology of the PNM prevails. The moral narcissist once responded that Israel could withdraw from the Jordan Valley if allowed just air rights to patrol the sky over the valley, as it whiz-bang weaponry was oh-so-successful in keeping foreign infiltrators out of Iraq. As my post points out, the right to maintain air patrols would repel an invasion coming from the East, but a conventional invasion is an unlikely tactic. It is more likely that the PNM would use the valley as a conduit for importing mortars and rockets, which planes would be useless to interdict.

  6. Of course. The terror will continue. That's what terrorists do. They terrorize. They've had nearly a century to build a State, they have Gaza which if it was given to nearly ANY other group on the planet would be a money making machine. I mean how many seaside resorts are there in the desert?!?! They turned it into one of the 7 circles of hell instead.

    Terror strategy has generally 4 aims.
    1. Compellance (to compel a State to do or to stop doing something)
    2. Provocation (to publicize the cause (Munich 72`) & provoke a response and gain sympathy - telegenic dead baby syndrome)
    3. Polarization (which generally works against a Democracy. See Trump as a pertinent example)
    4. Mobilization (to gain acolytes through media and to gain funding etc)

    None of this will stop if we cave prior to their setting down their arms and repudiating the calls for our demise.


  7. It's not a useful thought experiment because you don't know the extent of what they want. Only what they say they want at this moment. If give on one you get one more or 3 more. Then give on that one or 3 and get one of 3 new demands. That is the negotiation of the bazaar. That's how it works.

    Look at what's happening in Germany - Muslim rapes are a daily occurrence and feminists are still on their side because, well I don't know why but it's something. In any case this the flipside of that bazaar transaction. The Arabs never stop demanding and the liberal never stop conceding. If you gave in to every demand you know about today you'd only be faced with hundreds of new ones. It ends with your extinction.

  8. Glad to see that my argument satisfies those who are already opposed to empowering those determined to use taqqiya to gain the West's help to destroy the State of Israel. The test is, will it persuade anyone who thinks Israel really, really has to give something to the "long suffering" Palestinian but like to think of themselves as committed to protecting Israel from bona fide security threats?

    Very few of you reading this blog fit this category. But you probably know some people who do. Anyone want to test it on them?

  9. As a tactic Israel should adopt the Arab mentality. Agree and disagree to everything at the same time. Agree to all demands and entreaties the Arabs make and then of course couch them in terms that are unacceptable then the next day say they were never asked at all and the Arabs are lying. Followed by agreements and calls for peace the next day. Agree to all meetings then either cancel at the last second or walk out as soon as they start. Blame the Arabs for creating an environment of hostility. Pretend to be dragged kicking and screaming the the next meeting but agree to anything they demand at that meeting. As soon as it's concluded deny you agreed to anything and accuse the Arabs of war-like aggression. Demand a halt to all meetings and discussions until such time as the Arabs can be less aggressive w/o stating what the particulars of that might be. Never set success criteria no matter what. At the same time broadcast that Israel will take unspecified unilateral actions but don't articulate what they are or when they start or what the goal of them is.

    They could do this for years until the Arabs lose their minds.