Thursday, January 5, 2012

Volleyboy1 Has Some Words:

Karam

Obama supporter, Volleyboy1, has commented under my recent post, “Barack Obama is No Friend to the Jewish People or the Jewish State.” His argument seems to be that if the Obama Administration is encouraging the Radical Jihad then the Israeli government is seeking to communicate with the Muslim Brotherhood... as if these two things are somehow equivalent.

They are not.

Volleyboy quotes Ha’aretz:

Israel's new ambassador in Cairo, Yaakov Amitai, will attempt to open communication channels with Islamic officials in Egypt, including representatives of the Muslim Brotherhood and the radical Salafi movement's Al-Nour Party, according to a senior diplomatic official in Jerusalem.

He goes on to suggest that American capitulation to the Jihad is not only a Democratic Party weakness, but also a Republican Party weakness.

But while we are on "Islamists" how about our friendship with the Saudi Royal family? A friendship that blossomed under Republicans.

Volleyboy’s problem is that no one here is defending the Bush administration and just because Israel is willing to talk with Egypt, including the Brotherhood, this is not nearly the same thing as suggesting, as Barack Obama did, that the rise of the Jihad is something similar to the American Revolution or the Civil Rights Movement of the 1950s.

The fact of the matter is that the Obama administration is quite literally encouraging the rise of a genocidal anti-Semitic movement and there is no possible spin that can turn that into a good thing.

Israel is a very small country, surrounded by enemies, and will talk with anyone who will talk with her. This is only natural given Israel’s position in the world, but the President of the United States is a world leader that sets world agendas. Israel has a practical need to speak with its neighbors no matter who is in charge, but Barack Obama is literally encouraging the rise of the Jihad. Whatever his intention, this is clearly the effect.

Furthermore, Volleyboy1 fails to address the two other major criticisms in my piece. He does not explain how it is that the Obama administration ruined the “peace process” by demanding “total settlement freeze,” thus forcing Mahmoud Abbas to demand nothing less as the price for negotiations.

He also fails to explain how it is that the Obama administration dares to tell Jews where they may, or may not, live on ancient Jewish land, despite the fact that such a demand justifies Arab racism toward Jews. There is no reason why the presence of Jews in what the Jordanians dubbed “the West Bank,” land that has been known for millenia as Judea and Samaria, should prevent the Palestinians from accepting a state on that land.

If Volleyboy1 wants Jewish people to continue to support this administration, as I did initially, then he will have to do considerably better then merely noticing that Israel will talk with her neighbors, whomever they may be.

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7 comments:

  1. Are the Egyptian People not entitled to the same blessings of liberty that Israelis enjoy or that we Americans enjoy?  What is wrong with our president engaging the largest political party in an emerging democracy?  He makes clear where, exactly, we stand on the Middle East conflict, yet, at the same time, makes clear that we support the right of the Egyptian People to have the same freedoms that we do.  I see absolutely nothing wrong with that.

    As for the stalled peace process, all President Obama has done is tried to inject realism into the situation and tried to get all parties back to the table.  However, for that to happen, the leaders on both sides need to be interested in reaching an agreement and not just offer platitudes and discussion about the hope to reach an agreement.  At the moment, the actions of leaders on both sides indicate that neither of them are serious about actually ending this conflict.

    Let me make clear what volley has said, what I have said, and what many others have said, repeatedly:  President Obama is a great friend to the Jewish People and a great friend to the State of Israel and her continued existence as a Jewish and democratic state.

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  2. Dead on Mets...
     
    And Karma, the Obama Administration (AND EVERY OTHER AMERICAN ADMINISTRATIONS OFFICIAL POLICY) is that the West Bank is not part of Israel. That is every single administration from the very best to the very worst.
     
    President Obama DOES NOT say "Jews can't live there", he says Israeli Nationals can't live there - it is not their country. And guess what? He is right. OR are you willing to argue that the West Bank is part of Israel?
     
    Israeli Settlers get IDF protection, State benefits, and citizenship in Israel. Now, if they want to give that up... cool they can. Then we have no disagreement. BUT if they want that then they have to play ball. But I make no excuses for the PLO/PA and have called them out continually on this... so what the hell do I have answer for? It's not my fault you want to be lazy and not read what I have written. It's right there on the Progressive Zionist in my response to Ambassador Areikat.
     
    Karma, frankly I am not trying to convince you of anything. The Presidents record of friendship for Israel is undeniable. OH yeah and your graph and crowing about the Republicans is WRONG... Read the AJC poll again. 16% is NOT 38%. Actual Democratic % from 2008 is down by 9% from 54% to 45%, Independents are up from 25% to 38% and Republicans are up 1%.... At least get that right!
     
    Tell your buddies at the ECI or the RJC that they are not making the gains they think they are.
     
    I am guessing we can't count you in as part of our group: Jews for President Obama?

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  3. Ha! and I should get it right.. You cited the Pew poll and I cited the AJC Poll which - so my bad there - I generally trust the AJC Polls but I wrongly criticized that part. Apologies there.

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  4. You see an emerging democracy; I see a movement which spawned Hamas and AL-Queda. Nothing they are saying now bodes well for Israel or the region. Who needs a fucking democracy like that? A super Hamas right next door. That's all it is.

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  5. Mets and VB,

    I am directly in from Israel and my lids are droooping.

    But!

    I'm enjoying our conversation and I very much hope that you guys will continue so long as things remain civil, which they should.
    You should also know that I may share this conversation with the pro-Israel Bay group, because I think that it is a vital discussion for the Jewish community to be having.  

    There are basic questions that must be frankly addressed, such as whether or not the Obama Administration has been good for the state of Israel and, thereby, good for the Jewish people?

    That's a terrific question.

    Another important conversation to have between now and the next election is concerning the role of anti-Zionism in the progressive movement.

    This also needs to be discussed.

    Don't you think?

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  6. Thanks, I think so. Too bad so many waste their time on all the other stuff when THIS is the, as you say, the root. All is is mere commentary.

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