Friday, December 7, 2012

Latest Times of Israel Piece

Mike L.

Israel, declare your final borders

Oslo is dead and negotiations are pointless.

The Arab governments and the world community are holding Israel hostage.

The only way for them to free themselves is through declaring their final borders.

I very much wish that they would do so.


  1. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I believe this may be something on which there might be common ground across a wide swath of the pro-Israel spectrum, left to right*. I'm sure there would certainly be an issue here or there on the specific details, but isn't it clear to most by now that the Palestinian leadership has no plans to do anything but wait it out forever? Needless to say, I don't believe the current situation is sustainable in the long run. I don't see any reasonable chance for a friendly, mutual agreement anywhere on the horizon, so just end this mess already. Better to have the hostile neighbors in their own house down the street than setting up camp in your bathroom, right?

    (*this, of course, excludes anti-Israel fanatics like that selfish whore David Harris-Gershon who only claims to support the state, despite the fact that he's attempting to make a career out of constantly kicking its teeth in for the pleasure of seething hordes of antisemites at places like Daily Kos)

    1. Well, I'm with you, but my suspicion is that most who self-identify as on the "left" would probably think that unilateral action on the part of Israel would be counterproductive.

      They're still, at this exceedingly late date, hoping for a negotiated conclusion of hostilities and still tend to blame the Israelis for Palestinian intransigence due to the evil, hard-line, right-wing religious, fascistic settlers who rip Sacred Palestinian Olive Groves (TM) out of the ground with their bare fangs.


      btw, tomorrow Laurie and I hit the garden supply shop.

      We have two garden beds in the back, about 4 X 12 each. Last year we grew tomatoes and pasilla peppers and collards, but I wasn't real happy with the yield.

      So tomorrow we're going to get some fertilizer and really dig up the beds, aerate them, and get our gloves down into the soil for the purpose of a winter planting spinach and artichokes.

    2. But there's a distinction to be made here on this issue between those who self-identify as "left," and those who are on the progressive Jewish left, I believe.

      The sad thing is that personal animosity (and I realize I've participated in this myself) may be getting in the way here, from both sides.

      (Stuart, I need you to jump in here!)

      This is where I think that perhaps your denunciations of progressive-left Zionists, as deserved as they are on some points, may be somewhat overblown. I was only kicked out of a certain group of them for refusing to denounce you as a friend very recently myself, after all. The thinking actually isn't very different on some points, I believe.


      Congrats on the gardening! Sorry to hear things haven't gone too well yet, but please know that you are welcome to stop by La Vida Locavore at any time to ask for advice if youze so need!

    3. And I have to tell you, Jay, you stood up to the social pressure and showed a rare integrity. Your name was dragged through the mud because you had the guts and intelligence to stand up to bullies.

      The bottom line, it seems to me, is that we need people with integrity, balls, and conviction. We need people with strength who are willing to push back against this constant assault against the Jewish people and the Jewish state, without blaming their fellow Jews for this defamation.

      I have, it is true, been deeply disappointed in both the progressive-left and in the progressive Jewish left. The larger progressive-left, it seems to me, is lost to us. As a group they tend to think that Israel is guilty as hell and I cannot see any way that we can change their minds. For years the rockets have been falling around S'derot and Ashkelon and they said not a word, because they honestly believe that Israeli-Jews pretty much deserve whatever they get.

      In this generation, like every other for the last 2,000 years, they honestly believe that we deserve whatever ass-kicking we get. They may like us well enough as individuals, but as a group, as a collective, as a state, not so much.

      As for the Jewish left, I would love to see a call for the unilateral declaration of Israeli borders from it.

      Are you seeing that?, because I have not.