Thursday, August 2, 2012

Ugly newspapers. Even uglier readers.


I posted Pat Condell's latest video at the Bar and Grill within minutes of it hitting the back office inbox. I would have had it up within seconds of hearing it all the way through if I hadn't stuffed around trying to put in his links.

I'm a fan of Pat Condell.  Mind you I'm not a militant atheist like him. I'm no atheist at all come to think of it but I feel not the slightest urge to cut his throat for it.

I do not put up Condell's videos attacking Christianity or Christians or religious belief  because that is not what my blog is about. At the point of the meeting of minds it is not what Condell is about.  Condell has said that he has allied himself with Israel and the Jews because among many reasons he knows that Jews do not care what you believe so long as you leave them alone. I feel exactly the same way about militant atheists. I'm certain Pat Condell does to. Some of the most unpleasant men of the last century were pretty militant about their atheism. There is the point of the meeting of minds that I'm certain we all share.

In a strange but very real way that makes Pat Condell an honorary Jew. Just like Rupert Murdoch.  Forgive me for this on an American blog but I can think of no clearer way of saying it and the time has come to be as clear as we can about what we are confronting. They hate the "nigger lovers" even more than they hate the "niggers." As Jews we should know that. It takes guts to be Pat Condell.

So how to distinguish between aggressive and vile bigotry and legitimate private belief, religious or otherwise? Easy really. May I propose the Pat Condell principle.

In his honour. Even though he didn't say it exactly.

I don't care what you believe so long as you leave me alone.
So long as you teach hatred against anybody you do not leave me alone. 

The Bar and Grill had taken an interest in clerical antizionism and in the pursuit of that has with some other blogs picked a fight, of sorts, with the British Methodists. That's a different thing. I don't care what they believe so long as they don't act in a way that encourages the Jihadist war against the Jews and therefore ultimately themselves. If they do, they should not be surprised to hear  from us.

They of course would deny they are doing any such thing. But they would, wouldn't they? They also strenuously and pre-emptively deny antisemitism.  They are just doing what has become fashionable in left/liberal circles in Britain and it seems the US and Australia as well. Welcome to BDS-Lite. BDS British Methodist style. The BDS you have when you feel the compelling urge to deny antisemitism.

We'll only ban the Jews who live in the wrong parts of Jerusalem and in Judea and Samaria. Israelis who are not Jews can pretty much live where they like. We are not antisemites but we do think the Jews should live in their place. Incidentally we are also passionate opponents of apartheid.

Is that an unfair representation of the BDS -Lite position?

I mention all this because in the course of this discussion  I came across a new word, or at least an old word I hadn't seen for a long time. Supersessionism. This is the Christian theological doctrine that by turning their backs on Jesus the Jews forfeited the love of God that along with God's promises to the Jews has passed to the Christians. Ergo Judaism is not a legitimate religion. No mention of anyone else naturally.

Supersessionism.  An interesting word.  Five "S"s.  It positively hisses. I said in a private email to a Christian clergymen that the word only needs two "S"s.

Supersessionism is heresy apparently among British Methodists but this particular religious belief is once again mainstream in the Church of England. I find that offensive but not for religious reasons.I would find it just as offensive if these fools targeted for de-legitimisation any other group, religion or people.

On the other hands the British Methodists are not supersessionists although they do believe that God's promise of the land to the Jews ended with the coming of Christ. Israel is a political entity with no special status in Christian theology. Fine Gentlemen. Whatever. But one has to wonder why they go to so much trouble to make the point in relation to this particular political entity.  And yes there is that small matter about BDS Lite.

But they are not supersessionists. On the contrary they look upon themselves as honorary Jews. With respect gentlemen, Pat Condell, the atheist, is far more deserving of the title.

I urge you listen to him here attacking the Guardian and its readers. In it he pins a class of person and their newspaper  in a way that I am certain  will resonate with Americans.

Cross posted at Geoffff's Bar Grill


  1. You and Daphne and Shirl, and I think Richard Millet and Harry's Place, among other bloggers, seem to be in this fight with the Methodists.

    That is, this seems to be a non-American Anglo fight. Is that a fair characterization? Is it true? Because this does seem to be very much a British / Australian thing, rather than an American one.

    I have to say, Geoffff, I am very happy that you are participating here because your participation highlights some of the differences between American-Jewish support for Israel and other Jewish diaspora communities.

    The differences are not stark, but they do display themselves in topics of concern. What strikes me most, however, in reading non-American pro-Israel blogs, such as the Bar and Grill, is the responsibility that American Jews have for opposing an administration as anti-Israel as this one.

    In any case, very interesting post.

    You seem to be rolling.

  2. I've been meaning to post on this Mike

    I can only speak for myself but I think you're probably right. I've had an interest in clerical antizionism (as I call it) pretty much since a particularly sanctimonious Anglican priest in Sydney encouraged that sleaze Mordechai Vanunu on his path to criminality.

    The Methodists aren't even the main target. In Australia the Quakers are worse. All that has changed is that I've decided to stop being polite to these people. The tipping point for me was when the synod of the Church of England resolved to support an anti-Israel campaign