Friday, March 15, 2013

Latest Times of Israel Piece

Mike L.

Seeing Beyond the Oslo Delusion

My central argument is that the Oslo Delusion has inclined Jews, and others, throughout the world to use the very language of delegitimization to discuss the conflict. Because during the 1990s many of us held considerable hope that a reasonable conclusion of hostilities was possible with a Palestinian-Arab State living in peace next to Israel, we tended to employ the language of our enemies because we hoped those enemies might become friends.


  1. First time I have read anything that makes any sense. For a while now I have been saying that this is all topsy turvy - you go further and call it a delusion. If the 2 state solution goes ahead and under the current delusion, a tourist coming to visit will have to be told that "The Jews live in Palestine, the Palestinians live in Judea and Samaria and the Samaritans are "good" at the moment but who knows what will happen if they want autonomy over their homeland Samaria". Without getting into any further historical and ideological details. My response is: WTF

  2. The Arabs want you to believe they play a long game. This is not the case. They're not playing a game at all. They play the role of unhinged unreliable loon who says no no matter what. We on the other side of the table are always baffled by this. We think our opposites however misguided dysfunctional stupid and insane have an actual goal in mind. This is simply delusional thinking on our part.

    The Arabs have already met their own goal. Their goal is this, a haphazard ungovernable mess of chaos where the strong dominate the weak the criminals steal from the people the cynical exploit the simple. The Arabs don't want a state. That's quite far down the list of their objectives. You could give them, not offer but actually hand over everything they demand tomorrow and they would not take it. What they would do is scream and whine something about unilateral action, turn down our offer and demand something else then scream and cry some more they didn't get that.

    But it's simply a ploy. It doesn't mean anything. They don't want a 'state'. They don't want to be responsible and accountable they don't want to pick up the trash run the post office keep the lights on,. They don't want to have contract law or courts that uphold them. They don't want trade credit or bills or lading or portage fees. They don't want tariffs, treaties or concordats.

    They don't want any of that since that would be a net lose for them. They are now, today a criminal enterprise based along family lines who control key industries in much the way the Mafia operates. Cement, cell phones, cigarettes, gasoline, etc these are all owned and operated by 'families'. And the great thing is that they don't even have to pay for most of it on their end, they're simply given it for nearly free by the EU and UN and company.

    How does anyone even imagine their 'state' would function? Contract dispute over the water bill? Carbomb. Problem with the school board? Shoot them. Can't keep the hospital operating? Kill some doctors with rocks. Don't like what you read in the paper? Burn them to the ground.

    This is what would happen. And this is bad for business so they can't let that happen. Which is why they don't want a state.

    So the delusion is that we pretend or even actually believe we're dealing with rational actors being more or less 'normal'. We're mistaken that there's an end game. There isn't. In a hundred years the Arabs will be no further along and we will be still deluding ourselves.

    1. They surely have a different idea of what constitutes normal, strange as it is to us.

      One thing, however, is they know just who they are and what they are doing, unlike Westerners who, to a large extent, have lost purpose or pride in culture. Muslims are right in that assertion, in many Western societies have become corrupted and dysfunctional and are crumbling from within.

      That does not make me want to follow Islam, however, nor should it make anyone who cares about liberty, equality and human rights. I see that with my own eyes, every day, how so many can demand tolerance only for themselves, while being intolerant to others.

      Time to say, without remorse, that the Palestinians play play the anti-Israel crowd for fools. Again and again. They lie to Western faces and threaten mayhem if one dares to prove how and why they scam. To them it is slander to say ANYTHING that offends, no matter how slight, but their slander of us can involve death, and that is too much the norm, tolerated by too many among them.

      Much like Progressives who should better police their own for inaccurate and false pro-Palestinian, anti-Israel bias, more Muslims are needed to confront the doctrines of Islam that relate to non-believers.

    2. Which is a bit like saying the problem with Islam is Islam and the problem with Arab societies is that they're Arabs. Arab cultures across the Maghreb, Levant and Mizrahi are, contrary to CNN kvell-fests and Erin Burnett hijab shmata wearing extravaganzas, largely illiterate or barely literate. They receive all their information from state owned and mosque owned media. They flick on the TV is hear imams scream antisemitic noise nonstop. They see government 'spokesmen' declare the most obscene garbage, conspiracy theories and flat out retarded witchcraft all the time. It's not what they do, it's who they are.

      But the fallacy of western experts is that the stupid angry mob, the Arab 'street' has any import at all. It does not. There has never been a single Arab government who worries a millisecond what the 'street' thinks, not even during the Arab 'Spring' which is why it went badly for them. They don't care. Jew hate is official policy because it's useful to spin their failure that way. Everything everywhere at all times is because of the Jews. This is what failed states do. This week the Egypt Independent ran a story noting that Egypt is down to under 89 days of food supplies. 3 months and there's no more food for 90 million people unless the west or Russia or China steps in. And the only way anyone is going to do that is with the assumption that it's a dead loss. They will never get it back. Egypt is broke and getting broker and no one will lend them anything. So once again, an Arab state gets to fail and receive a handout and they pacify the filthy mopes in the street with endless Jew hate. You're hungry because of the THE JEWS!!!!!

      So on the one hand the quote chapter and verse how Quran tells them to kill Jews and on the other they have their government telling them the same thing.

  3. Great piece, Mike. A clear, concise summation of the basic argument, particularly singling out the usage of those four specific terms. Language matters, of course.

    Buying fully into the other side's language (which is a key component of their only real path to victory), especially at this late date, strikes me as rather a bit of folly. To say the very least. These are the tactical descendants of any given large conventional army, who after defeat, complain that if only those damned guerillas had worn proper uniforms and lined up in order to take their medicine, well things would have turned out quite different!

    Sometimes you have to change your approach as the situation evolves. I can't believe there are still those out there who remain in this state of mind, and who say things like 'we must wait at the table as long as it takes!' etc etc, yet there clearly, and unfortunately, are.

    I'd love to play high-stakes poker against such folks, that's at least one thing I know for sure...