Saturday, November 9, 2013

Questions for "anti-Zionists"


Earlier this evening I was visited by an old friend from the 'progressive' hate site Daily Kos, who apparently felt the overwhelming urge to troll Jews tonight.

Well, I feel I must ask him some questions in return.

Here they are -
Please do for us what even the people you purportedly claim to stand for cannot do - define for us what exactly is a 'Palestinian,' and what makes them a specific people aside from a hardcore drive and desire to kill Jews. 
Please define for us what exactly is 'Palestinian land,' and please tell us why you only claim that Israel's stake to Judea and Samaria, the undisputed historical homeland of the Jewish people, for thousands of years, is 'illegal,' while at the same time you seemingly completely accept a random 19-year period of illegal Jordanian military occupation as solid, if your actual problem is not, in fact, merely a simple hatred of Jews? 
Please tell us why Jews can not live where 'Palestinian' Dictator Mahmoud Abbas, currently ruling in the ninth year of his four-year term, does not want us to live.
Please tell us how literal Nazi-style Judenrein states, as for example a future 'Palestine,' are progressive, in your definition of same. Please expand upon this, and show us how and why you are not a supporter of racist, apartheid policies.  
Please, if you can, inform us once and for all that the criminal terror organizations which claim to represent the 'Palestinian' people are not direct descendants of the WWII-era Nazi Germans.  Provide evidence for claims to the contrary.
Clear that up for us. 
Please share with us all of the wonderful stories of how kindly Jews have been treated in the Arab world.  Now, and throughout well-documented history. 
Please enlighten us as to how Arab nations have treated Jewish populations and their possessions. 
Please tell us all about how the Iraqi authorities treasured the Jewish archives stolen from one of the longest-lived local populations anywhere in the history of the world, which were only rescued from a flooded palace basement a decade ago by coalition forces liberating that country from Saddam Hussein's brutal and bloody rule.
Please tell us how many Jewish museums exist in the Arab-Muslim world, and indeed how many Jews, period, are still allowed to live in same? 
Please explain why we should care so much about the 'Palestinian' 'Nakba,' while ignoring the much greater, by multitudes, number of Jews who were ethnically cleansed from their homelands by Arab nations, leaders and military forces throughout the Middle East in the middle of the 20th century?
I have many more, but these will do for starters.  Just for once, I'd like to see some try to answer even just these.

I won't be holding my breath, though...


  1. But Jay, I responded to your ludicrous post. Not only that, but I thought I did so with some aplomb.

  2. After a third request to respond to your ridiculous assertions about hangings and terror, here, get this, Israel is a country which was born itself by terror, the terror gangs of the Irgun Zeva'i Le'umi, of the Stern gang which murdered British soldiers, which hanged them in the Orange groves and which slit their throats, which assassinated United Nations Officers and envoys, which blew up the King David Hotel killing nearly 100 British, Australian and New Zealand civil servants and you want to talk about Non-Israeli victims in Iraq? Are you serious?

    What your post does is it attempts to redefine the debate, which is not about Judaism, it is about the world's growing rejection of the acts of Israel whose crimes it attempts to hang on the necks of all Jews.

    Then you pretend to be balanced, only there is no balance is there Jay?

    There is naught but a growing demand for justice and a return to civilised rule in that territory.

    You and your dirty little mates fear that most people in the world today are not in favour of a two state solution because they do not believe in "Jewish states" or "Islamic states" or "black states" or "white states" or "Apartheid states" - most of us favour "democratic states".

    Israel is a small state, and from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Israel/Palestine should be one democratic state where all the Jews and all the "other" indigenous peoples should participate as equal citizens in a political environment of their own choosing, each with one single vote of equal and unbiased value.

    If the Israeli apologists like yourself will not accept that, then there will have to be a partition.

    The minimum conditions of such a partition were set out under agreement at the Oslo accord and they have been reneged on by Israel and rejected only at the continued violence and aggression within the region which will continue and will even increase until they are accepted or until a single state evolves.

    Here is a general summary of those acceptable "two state solution" terms, in case you were not aware of them before:-

    1- The Palestinian state MUST be a contiguous state joining up the West Bank and Gaza
    2- The Palestinian state must have an Arab border all around it, not an Israeli one
    3- The Palestinian lands must be shorn of all illegal Zionist settlements except where those settlements were legitimately PURCHASED (and not stolen) from their original owners.
    4- The Palestinian lands must be shorn of ALL Israeli military facilities and camps with an international military guarantee that there will be no military excursions by IDF cadres in the Palestinian state.
    5- East Jerusalem must be it's capital with the Dome of the Rock - not some suburb that you're going to magically call "Jerusalem" - the Palestinian flag must fly from the Church of the Holy Sepulchre and from the roof of the AlAqsa Mosque.
    6- All the Palestinian refugees must have their right to return to their homes and their lands from which they were driven by military force and terror - by the terrorist gangs of The Stern Gang and the Irgun and other Zionist terrorists. The Palestinians must have their homes and their lands back.

    Take your pick, Jay, me old mate, my little bum chum, one state or two states, and if the two state solution is not based on the above minimum core terms there will be no peace in Israel/Palestine and the Israeli population, already under pressure and emigrating in increasing numbers, will eventually be forced to accept less favourable terms as was the fate of the recalcitrant white apartheid supporters of apartheid South Africa.

    Ask Mandela, ask Tutu, Ronnie Kassrels and Justice Goldstone, those heroes of the last Zionist style apartheid state have a lot you could learn from.

    1. I fear nothing, though I do have to admit to chuckling when bigots like you repeatedly continue to dodge simple questions.

      Your concern about British troops is duly noted, and very cute.

      I do love it when Greenwald-ites rediscover love of the the West when it's useful to bash actions of Jews. But not, of course, when we're taking out terrorists in the present. No sirree, bob...

      (I'd bring up Struma here, amongst many other issues, but yeah why bother?)


      I see you've managed to type 1,000 words without saying anything.

      Israel is the national homeland of the Jewish people, and attitudes like yours provide ample reason why we need one.

      Who cares about 900,000 Jews driven out of their homes due to Arab-Muslim imperialist racism, after all, right? Your cute little 'joke' about hanging is duly noted.

      Unfortunately for you, one of the world's best military forces will continue to ensure that your goal is never achieved.

      Israel will be around long after you and I are both gone.

      As for your laughable 'summary,' once again I must ask - please provide documented evidence of 'Palestinian land.' I see you have not done so, because you can not. Because no such thing exists. Nor ever has, in history.

      Please tell us all about this thing called "East Jerusalem," which exists only in the minds of people like you. Please, indulge us. Tell us all about how Jerusalem is not one city, and is not the permanent capital of the Jewish people.

      Please tell us about the historic economy of Arab 'East Jerusalem.' Tell us about their transportation systems, their infrastructure, their historic relations with neighboring nations. Tell us about their governmental services, tell us about their long enlightened history of charitable organizations. Tell us about the political parties and celebrated figures which have long represented the unique city of 'East Jerusalem.'

      Enlighten us, please.

      Please tell us all about the historical 'Palestinian' city of East Jerusalem, and its long history, which surely must predate 1967 or so, eh?

      Please inform us of all the historical sites, holy horse stables, etc etc, that made up this magical land of which you speak.

      Please tell us why you embrace the 19-year Jordanian military occupation, yet deny thousands of years of Jewish history im Judea and Samaria.

      Please tell us why you don't fight actual apartheid in Lebanon, Jordan and everywhere else where 'Palestinians' are kept as a permanent third-class for use as a propaganda weapon against Jews. Please tell us why you so hate the country that treats Syrian war victims in its hospitals, while saying nothing about that same country as it slaughters hundreds of thousands of its own citizens and, also, has another large population of permanent third-class 'Palestinians' kept in its arsenal, solely to use as propaganda weapons against Israel (when it isn't gassing them, that is).

      Please tell us why you support a Judenrein state in the Nazi-German tradition.

      Yes, we know you think Jews are 'illegal.' But your bigotry does not equal fact.

      Speak about any other ethic group in the world as the way you about Jews, and you'd be labeled a vile racist who nobody would ever want anything to do with. But don't worry. For now, as long as you can plausibly fool morons by using words like 'Zionist' in place of 'Jew,' you'll be accepted in polite company for at least a little bit longer.

      And you of course know nothing of Zionism, or its history. Your use of same as a racial slur, however, is certainly duly noted.

      I don't need to ask any Jew-haters anything. We already have folks like you in all of your 'glory' to make all of our points for us.

    2. Also, please answer the questions asked of you if you're going to continue to post here.

    3. Excuse me?

      There were no Australian or NZ civil servants in the King David Hotel in 1946 and so there were no Australians and New Zealanders killed. Where do you get this stuff?

      What do you think we were? Colonial administrators for the British?

    4. Well, according to Haaretz, we were rather more than that, check this out:-

      I particularly like the bit which says "events resulting in the creation of modern Israel" - kind of makes an Aussie feel "responsible" for the mess which came of it all, doesn't it Geoffff?

    5. I don't read Haaretz on the grounds its a pile of shit.

      Makes an Aussie feel proud. The restoration of the only surviving indigenous people and culture of this land as a sovereign nation again. Without question the most successful and inspiring stories of national liberation of the last century.

    6. Only surviving indigenous people geoffff? really? and that was the basis on which Israel has sought its legitimacy?

      Makes an Aussie feel right downright ashamed Geoffff. Luckily though, these rather bigotted views are not shared by any but a small handful of extremists in Australia.

    7. Kasrils and Slovo were KGB trained and operated. In his own writings Kasrils vaguely alludes to being involved in KGB directed directed 'actions' or massacres against Muslim Zambians in the 1970's as Political Islam was as anti communist as anyone out there. Moreover the ANC being largely directed by the Soviets in the 50's and 60's pulled their standard playbook off the shelf to include of course "Zionism" as the root of apartheid. They also tried to blame "Zionism" by the way on Communist losses in Rhodesia, Mozambique and later on, in Angola.

    8. I worked with Ronnie Kasrils in Mozambique and, apart from logistical and intelligence support, I can recall none of the "largely directed from the Soviets" bit you speak of.

      Joe Slovo had closer friendships with Moscow, especially during the Angolan and Namibian campaigns, but again, Cuba had more to do with that arena that did the Soviets.

      Perhaps a little pointer could clear that up?

    9. First of all no you didn't. Second read his memoirs.

    10. You badly misspelled his name at least once. Kasrells is I think what you used.

    11. First of all, yes I did. I also spent 8 months in a security prison in John Vorster Square and in Cullinan 1969-1970. I was listed with Interpol (by New Zealand, of all places) 1991-1996 due to my "activities" and I remain the record holder for the longest applicant for permanent residence in New Zealand's history.

      My wife and I frequently made front page news in New Zealand between 1996-2001 as the only applicants on record who achieved permanent residence status in that country after winning a series of civil actions against New Zealand's Minister of Labour assisted by Greg Fortuin, South Africa's Consular representative in NZ.

      I served with Umkonte we Sizwe from 1974 - 1988 in both military and civilian capacities. I attended Wits University, Coimbra, Portugal, Cambridge and Massey University in Palmerston North NZ.

      I also spent 14 months in Israel just after the '67 war, where my brother served Israel as an ex South African Air Force trained fighter pilot. It is that experience which left me with the promise never to return until certain changes had been made.

      I hold South African, Portuguese, Israeli, Brazilian, New Zealand and Australian citizenships, obtained in that order, and I now head the capital markets division for an Asia Pacific banking enterprise with offices in Singapore, Hong Kong, Macau and Brisbane.

      You don't know me Empress, but if you do stumble on data about New Zealand's longest permanent residence applicant, you will have found my data, it is the only remaining data in the public arena i have found difficult to remove, but either way, I don't really care.

      Good luck

  3. "..But not, of course, when we're taking out terrorists in the present. No sirree, bob..." - here is your "terrorism in the present" you dim bulb :-

    I don't know how "good" your Israeli "best armed forces" is, but I did see them get their butts kicked not so long ago after they murdered a family relaxing on a Lebanese beach.

    As for the remainder of your bigoted trash, consult the Oslo accord, they are public documents, you will find the answers to everything you asked, look it up, it should not be too difficult, even for somebody of your skills.

    But I suspect you already know these things Jay, the problem is not that you don't KNOW these things, or even that you disagree with me about them, the problem is that you will not ACCEPT them.

    And no, Israel will not be there in its present form for every Jay, In fact it will be there for very much longer because I will return to Israel in my own lifetime and I will do so when it is again free. In fact I have a very special bottle of rare Scotch which I plan to open when I return there to celebrate that very occasion Jay.

    I hope you'll be there celebrating alongside us Jay - lol!!

    1. Why don't you spell these obvious things out for us, then? If they are so easy and obvious?

      Help a brother out.

      And please, as an urbanist, I would absolutely LOVE to know more about this fantastic and magical ancient city of 'East Jerusalem' which nobody has ever even heard of until idiots like you began slurping PLO Kool-Aid at about a quarter-past last Tuesday.

      Why can you not expand on this? Why can you not tell us all about these magical 'Palestinian' lands?

    2. Btw, I thought you were dreaming about me with my pants off, and said you were leaving, or something like that?

    3. (You're going to have to get in line behind my Jewish girlfriend in Burlington, New Jersey, on that count, for the record...)

    4. LoL - not sure I would use the term "dreaming" Jay, the word "nightmare" felt more appropriate with reference to your pants being off.

      For a man who so enthusiastically claims to be a supporter of Israel, you know remarkably little about that little terrorist state.

      Do some homework Jay, and stay away from hate sites like this one, they contribute very little other than anti-Semitic calls to boycott Jewish owned enterprises like the one which controls the distribution of Guinness.

      Another tidbit Jay, Google "Palestinian". You will find they really do exist, seriously, they really do, and they have always existed, despite your every effort and those of Israel to ethnically cleanse them, and they have not yet been wiped off the face of the earth. Not by a long chalk.

      I see you are not really happy about the Oslo accord either Jay.

      Hey, get over it, the rest of the world is already over it, and we all look forward to freedom celebrations to be held at the very same Mosque it refers to buddy - hope to see you there when it happens.

    5. Yet you keep talking about my pants being off.

      Please more about this fantastic and magical ancient city of 'East Jerusalem' which nobody has ever even heard of until idiots like you began slurping PLO Kool-Aid at about a quarter-past last Tuesday.

      Why can you not expand on this? Why can you not tell us all about these magical 'Palestinian' lands?

      As for mosques, I can walk to about a dozen in my neighborhood. Not sure how many I'd be warmly welcomed in, particularly as one who now wears a Magen David around my neck at all times, but I can get along with anyone, and I am friends with two Arab-Muslim falafel / shwarma vendors here in my corner of North Philadelphia, which just so happens to also be one of the major urban centers of Islam in the northeastern United States.

      Who are you, again?

      What shitty suburb do you live in, where maybe perhaps you might possibly once a month bump into a Muslim working for minimum wage at your local Burger King?

      Get over yourself, troll.

      The anti-Jewish glory you seek from your mommy's basement isn't going to be happening any time soon, sorry fella...

    6. Speaking of falafel!

      The falafel guy was at the Oakland farmers market today and so Laurie and I shared a gyro and a falafel sandwich. I have to tell you, that guy makes pretty friggin' good falafels.

      Ever since my falafel epiphany with Paul at the Great San Francisco Jew Fest, from the Flying Falafel Company, I've been trying to figure out how to really make the little nuggets of deliciousness and its tricky.

      What I found was that adding an egg to the mixture made all the difference, and I am now happy with my falafel recipe, but I do not think that it is exactly authentic.

      It's a worriment.


    7. Yeah. An egg isn't exactly authentic, but if you're gonna go that route I have just one word - sabich!

      Greatest. Sandwich. In. The. World.

      If you ever find yourself in Philadelphia, Mike, we're gonna have lunch at Mama's Vegetarian, and dinner at Judah Mediterranean Grill. ;)

    8. If this stupid argument ever ended I would begin to wonder whether you were Sephardim, but no no, I won't ask, you already told me you're an atheist - lol :))

  4. Also, while we're on the Jordan note, can somebody explain to me why Jordan is not the 'Palestinian' homeland, especially considering that they likely make up more than half of the population?

    Or do demographics only count when we're talking about Israel?

    1. Good question.

      Jordan is not considered the "Palestinian" homeland because Jordan came into existence many decades before most of the local Arabs took on the appellation Palestinian and they only did so decades after it was abandoned by the Jews in favor of "Israel," which is an ancient name for the Jewish people.

      One of the things that people do not realize is that the very word "Israel" means the Jewish State, but it also means the Jewish people.

    2. Indeed. I am, as you know, a proponent of Israel declaring final, defensible borders and tossing keys to whatever they deign to grant the 'Palestinians' a state as they withdraw to within same, but still. Why not ask these questions, when so many seek to deny Jews even the right to live within our own historical capital?

  5. Simple, because it is the Jordanian homeland which has been forced to house many of the Palestinians forced off their land by the terrorist state of Israel, dammit!

    Really Jay, if you want to enter into a discussion or debate about Israel, you really ought to get a better grip of these things.

    1. What is a "Jordanian," and why is the concept of a "Jordanian" homeland one you accept absolutely without question?

      Jew hate, much?

  6. Jordanian hater? Much?

    Now that you've basically already eliminated Palestinians, and are even ready to forget they ever existed, are we about to receive a culture shock about how Jordan also never existed?

    How many people would you like to just wish away out of existence Jay?

    LoL - man, this sounds like the same joke, different characters

    1. What is a "Jordanian?"

      You haven't answered this.

      Why do you accept their national self-determination without question, while railing against Jews?

      The answer seems pretty obvious.

      My only question is when you burn crosses in front of synagogues, how do you keep the flying embers from staining your pointy white hood?

  7. Haaretz refers to them every day Jay, check out their English publications for further details.

    And who is threatening your right to self determination Jay, after all, it is protected by the same laws which protect everyone else in Philadelphia. You ARE from Philadelphia, right?

    And when was the last time somebody with a white hood threatened you Jay? Sounds awful! There there, you have my sympathies, do tell us all about it.

    This might even explain some of your bigotry!

  8. "Terrorist State of Israel?" Man, this clown really has drunk the kool-aid hasn't he?

  9. Full jug Doodad, you joining me for a swig or two? Prefer Arak, but hey Koolaid is good.

    1. Your extreme Islamophobia is what really worries me, Titus.

      You can't even bring yourself to condemn the attempted assassination of a Pakistani school girl?

      What kind of ghoul are you?

  10. One who knows too little about the issue to pass any judgments.

    But you talk to me as if you suspect me of attacking her, I promise you, it really wasn't me.


    1. It doesn't matter how I've 'talked to you,' and your ignorance is no excuse.

      All that now matters is that I've proven that you care not one whit about Muslims who are abused by other Muslims. Your only 'concern' is what Jews are up to.

      Consider yourself exposed.

  11. Really? you must have forgotten to post stuff Jay, there is no proof

    1. Please contact your local bund camp immediately for help dealing with missing punctuation, failed capitalization and incomplete sentences.

      Thanks. I'll be here all week.

    2. "It's" is a contraction, Titus. You forgot your comma, as well, schoolmarm.

    3. Thanks, I'll try to remember that. Must be my G-d awful public education showing.

  12. The 1964 PLO Charter

    "Article 19: Zionism is a colonialist movement in its inception, aggressive and expansionist in its goal, racist in its configurations, and fascist in its means and aims. Israel, in its capacity as the spearhead of this destructive movement and as the pillar of colonialism, is a permanent source of tension and turmoil in the Middle East, in particular, and to the international community in general. Because of this, the people of Palestine are worthy of the support and sustenance of the community of nations."

    The 1968 Revised, and Current, PLO Charter

    "Article 19: The partition of Palestine in 1947 and the establishment of the state of Israel are entirely illegal, regardless of the passage of time, because they were contrary to the will of the Palestinian people and to their natural right in their homeland, and inconsistent with the principles embodied in the Charter of the United Nations; particularly the right to self-determination."

    The Fatah Constitution

    "Article 19: Armed struggle is a strategy and not a tactic and the Palestinian Arab people's armed revolution is a decisive factor in the liberation fight and in uprooting the Zionist existence, and this struggle will not cease unless the Zionist state is demolished and Palestine is completely liberated."

  13. Yup, Daniel.

    "- Number of Muslim states in the world: Over fifty

    - Number of officially Christian states in the world: Several

    - National states in the world: Numerous

    - Number of Arab national states in the world: Over twenty

    - Number of Jewish national states in the world: One"

    And yet even just that one is one too many for a certain type of person.

  14. TitusRockjaw,

    If one is suffering feeling anger and hate because of one's experiencing the suffering of not having what one wants, lashing out against a group of people who constitute a cultural and ethnic group who, for the past over two thousand years, have been continuously universally libeled, have been repeatedly mass-murdered, have continuously been subjected to having persecutorial unjust laws made against themselves, have been continuously wrongfully viewed as being evil and powerful and oppressive of others, and have been continuously treated with bigoted intransigent contempt, and are currently being universally libeled, are currently under intendedly genocidal siege, are currently being subjected to persecutorial unjust legislative rulings proposed by totalitarian oppressive persecutorial states, are currently wrongfully viewed as being evil and powerful and oppressive of others, and are currently being treated with bigoted intransigent contempt, is not good for one and is not good for others.

  15. Jay, name the fifty Muslim states. The planet I live on has quite a few less than fifty.

    Ditto "Christian states"

    1. The 56 member states of the Organization of Islamic Cooperation (the OIC) -- an international organization, and the largest voting bloc in the United Nations:

      Saudi Arabia
      United Arab Emirates
      Ivory Coast
      Burkina Faso
      Sierra Leone

      The non-state member of the Organization of Islamic Cooperation (the OIC):

      The Palestinian Authority (Fatah-PLO)


      The Organization of Islamic Cooperation and its Role in Enforcing Islamic Law, a brief by Maj. Stephen Coughlin

    2. States which officially hold Christianity as their state religion:

      Alsace-Moselle: The Roman Catholic Church
      Argentina: The Roman Catholic Church
      Costa Rica: The Roman Catholic Church
      Liechtenstein: The Roman Catholic Church
      Malta: The Roman Catholic Church
      Monaco: The Roman Catholic Church
      Greece: Church of Greece
      Georgia: Georgian Orthodox Church
      Denmark: Church of Denmark
      Iceland: Church of Iceland
      Norway: Church of Norway
      Tuvalu: Church of Tuvalu
      England: Church of England

    3. Every one of those nations have Synagogues, surely that makes them "Jewish"?

      And no, the "official" religion in every one of those states you will find is "secularism".

    4. Thanks, Dan. I had decided to ignore that bigoted idiot, especially after he claimed elsewhere just yesterday that he was going away.

      Of course he simply couldn't resist the temptation to keep trolling Jews, like others of his kind.

      So thanks for once again exposing this fool for the ignorant tool that he is.

    5. You can't ignore me Jay, I am a voice from your future.

  16. A cultural exposure interlude:

    TEL AVIV , ISRAEL - WALKING TOUR - 2010 - HD 1080P

    The colors of Jerusalem


  17. And yet, not a single one of those nations is "Islamic".

    Israel is a member of various international Christian, Muslim and other non-Jewish organisations, and yet it remains "the Jewish State"

    Almost without exception, every nation on this planet has members or official offices of Israeli organisations and/or Jewish organisations, which, by your logic, means the entire planet is "Israeli" or "Jewish"

    Come on guys, at least present an argument which has more than a mere tiny morsel of logic attached to it.

    1. Rather incredibly, this just might be your single stupidest comment yet.

      I think I'd actually consider paying to watch you and our other buddy Nagaura discuss our evil, if for nothing other than pure comic value.

      I'd buy that for a dollar.

    2. Thanks for the compliment Jay. It is trite knowledge that many arguments which cannot be disputed by the Israel apologists become tagged "stupid" by the anti Israel mob, as though the accusation is a reasonable substitute for rebuttal.