Thursday, December 15, 2011

Are Hilltop Youth et al Terrorists?

Doodad

Bibi says no. Our friend Volleyball says yes:

"This said... the Israeli government STILL will not call these extremists terrorists though that is exactly what they are"

I disagree. What they did is bad and they should be punished; just like British youth who rioted and OWS'ers who did bad stuff. No one is calling those people terrorists.

I know what terror looks like. It looks like: 9/11; Leon Klinghoffer; the Fogel Family; Israeli pizza parlors; etc.

Big difference. Let's try and call things by their proper name.

.

11 comments:

  1. The Jews of Judea and Samaria are a people living under huge pressure.  They have to endure Palestinian violence and hatred, as well as international condemnation, including condemnation from their fellow Jews for living in the wrong place.

    I find it racist, actually.

    The very notion that Jews may be allowed to live here, but not there, is racist to the core.

    So, no, they are not "terrorists."

    What they are are victims of officially approved, both in Ramallah and Washington, DC, of racist malice.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Did you just say the "Hilltop Youth" are victims????

    I just want to be clear on this.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Hey VB,

    I would characterize the Jews of the Middle East as victims, in general, yes.

    Diaspora Jews, particularly American diaspora Jews, are not.

    My main concern is not for us, but for the other half, and, yes, they are victims of a long, long assault... an ongoing siege.

    ReplyDelete
  4. Sorry man but that is not clear at all....

    You do realize who they politically follow and are reminiscent of don't you?

    ReplyDelete
  5. Volleyboy,

    I am not entirely certain who you are referring to.

    Are we talking about any Jew who happens to live beyond the Green Line?

    I mean, I get that you are thinking of right-wing religious ideologues, some of whom were followers of Kahane.

    Is that correct?

    I guess one question that I would have is, what percentage of Jews who live in Judea and Samaria (which the Jordanians named "the West Bank") are Kahane followers?

    It is the Kahanists that you don't like, right?

    I think that I tend to question progressive-left characterization of Jews who live there as something akin to evil.

    Just as I fail to demonize American conservatives, so I fail to demonize Jews who live beyond the line.

    ReplyDelete
  6. I am being very specific about who I am talking about and I always have been. I am talking about the "Hilltop Youth" the people I think are terrorists.

    What is not clear here?

    ReplyDelete
  7. You must be referring to this:

    http://www.jpost.com/Defense/Article.aspx?id=249716

    Yes?

    I tell ya what.  As I honestly do not know enough about this kind of thing to make a definitive statement on it, I will simply pass.

    Are they "terrorists"?

    My inclination is not to use that word to describe Jewish people who get into clashes with the IDF.  Usually that word is used to describe people who attempt to kill civilians for a particular political cause.

    To my Jewish ear it generally means Radical Jihadis seeking to kill Jews and infidels.

    ReplyDelete
  8. Let's see....vandalize a mosque with graffiti versus blow up a pizzeria and kill over a dozen people. Hmmmmm....that's a hard one. NOT!

    ReplyDelete
  9. that's a bullshit equivalence Doodad and you know it. Further, if that had been Palestinians doing it, you would have been screaming to high heaven about it being terror. Their terror is assault on Palestinians, real physical assault. Even the IDF says that is the case.

    Our side has bad guys too Doodad - making excuses for them is not right.

    ReplyDelete
  10. Interesting.  Y'know, this little exchange illustrates the ideological difference between Israel Thrives and The Progressive Zionist.

    I do not have time to write on it now, but will do so tomorrow or Sunday.

    The differences, btw, do not illustrate anything particularly bad about either blogs, imo, just different orientations around the same issue.

    In any case, if you guys continue this conversation I very much hope that you keep it civil.  I consider you both friends, after all.

    Also, if you do continue this conversation, you might want to open a fresh thread on the top of the page as we are now hard-up on the right of the page.

    Cheers!

    I'm off to meet the Schmooopster downtown.

    I see Chinese food in my future.

    ReplyDelete
  11. Assault is assault NOT terror. Graffiti is vandalism NOT terrorism. I know what terrorism is and isn't. And I'm not making excuses...I said they did bad and need to be punished. I'm just not willing to call it terrorism until it actually resembles what I have come to know as terrorism.

    Now I can see why some would although I find it a weak equivalence. And I can see where it might become actual "terrorism." if it passes a certain threshold. For me, that threshold is pretty far off at this point.

    Obama et al call the Fort Hood incident workplace violence. These kids haven't even risen to that equivalence yet.

    I think we all agree they need to stop and those who don't need to be punished.

    A little background might help. I spent the last half of my career advocating/working with "at risk," youth (in and out of custody.) My skin is pretty thick and I'm not quick to abandon them to labels. So that will color my thinking here.

    ReplyDelete