Friday, March 2, 2012

This is the Progressive-Left

Michael

answer this (1+ / 0-)

why is Iran having nuclear weapons less acceptable than Israel having them? Pakistan? India? the US?

An Israeli attack on Iran would be a terrible thing, and sufficient cause in my mind to sever relations with Israel. I understand that i am not the President, but i would support him 100% if he severed relations with Israel, if Israel were to launch an attack on Iran. The belligerent children, such as Bibi, need to have their temper tantrum shut down.

by brasilaaron on Fri Mar 02, 2012 at 09:07:36 AM PST

This is your political movement, not mine.

Why is Iran having nuclear weapons less acceptable than Israel having them?

Ya mean, aside from the fact that Israel is an ally and Iran is not?

Ya mean, aside from the fact that after 2,000 years of getting our asses kicked, the Jewish people have every right to protect themselves?

{Moron.}

This is your political movement, not mine.

The progressive movement is rife with this kind of sentiment. They don't particularly like or trust Israel, but they do tend to have a real affection toward the Palestinians and very often explain to Jewish people why Palestinians have every right to kill Jews... because their violence toward us represents "resistance."

The progressive left is no friend to the Jewish people and we need to finally wrap our brains around that truth.

Because it is the truth.

22 comments:

  1. Again, you smear the entirety of the center-left because of the actions of a few commenters at a few websites. I am a liberal. I oppose Iranian nuclear weapons. Like President Obama, I favor keeping all options on the table to prevent Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons. My view, I strongly suspect, represents the mainstream, majority opinion within the Democratic Party and within American liberalism.

    The overlap between those that are so blasé about an Iranian nuclear weapon, if not outright supportive, and those that oppose Israel's continued existence as a Jewish and democratic state cannot be ignored. That, I believe, we are fully in agreement on. And, that the overwhelming majority use "criticism" of Israel and "opposition" to Israeli policies to mask their antisemitism is also something, I suspect, that we are in agreement on.

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    1. And in fact, I'm the left left left. And I agree with this comment fully. There is nothing inherently "left" (and there sure as shit ain't nothing liberal) about antisemitism or, so-called, "anti-Zionism."

      Which for the moment, I'll pretend are not one and the same (wink, wink) as practiced by those who profess to simply believe the latter at hate-friendly sites like Daily Kos. People like this little angry marmot stooge, for instance, who insist on pretending that they're merely 'criticizing Israel,' when in fact their whole game is harassing Jews and building up hate against same amongst the political left.

      Let's consider the proposition for a moment that denying the Jewish people, aside from all other people in the world, the right to self-determination is not simply based upon bigotry (wink, wink). Then what is it based upon, then?

      ???

      I'll know they're for human rights when they launch Saudi Apartheid Week. Until then, they can shove it.

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    2. Jay,

      As was referred elsewhere, it's true I have not met you, but I suggest that if we did meet you would find me more civil, respectful and tolerant than some you actually have met.

      You might also find that I am more liberal and concerned with human dignity than many who talk about it. I believe that it is reflected in the way that people communicate.

      As I said, I do not get off on having incessant arguments and personally insulting others. I leave that to others, whose names I will not mention. Then again, I will not back down when I think it unwise to do so.

      But notice that there is a common element in many of these disputes, here and elsewhere, and that is one of the participants. I do not call him a liar or disingenuous, either, or propose that only my version is right, no ifs, and or buts.

      Just wanted you to have a better sense of things. One reason I call myself oldschool is that I am an oldschool liberal and I have watched as many in the progressive wing have developed a side that is far from being liberal and much more dogmatic and authoritarian. I speak against that regularly, no matter which side engages in it.

      When it comes to Obama, I guess my crime is that I am not enamored enough, and not afraid to be critical of him both from the left and right sides, depending on the issues, when justified. I worship no politician. Even amid the turmoil, I voted for him and cannot see doing otherwise. That does not mean I will shill for him when I disagree, like some Democratic spinmeister. I find, in that regard, that Democrats can be as bad as Republicans, and that they all create false outrages to please the partisans, even if they divert from the more important issues.

      I do not apologize for speaking out against the OIC or MB and their intentions. That does not constitute hate for Muslims. It actually is advocating for Muslims and all others who want to live free. That is the liberal position, and those who attack are, in my opinion, hindering the fight for universal human rights.

      In any event, I wanted to explain myself, away from the fray. I will end by pointing out what the first reply to me in the atheist diary said:

      Congrats on not being offended. That's wonderful. Bully for you.

      Now is that the way to engage someone?

      Later!

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    3. I agree with all of this, oldschool, and I don't doubt you at all. I do not for a second doubt that you are who you say you are. At least grant me that!

      Funny thing is I'm more welcome here than I am even at a certain other site, where just a few minutes ago I was told to go away and do... ah hell, I don't even know what.

      Nor do I care, frankly.

      I'm thinking I'm just gonna quit it all soon, and enjoy life in Philly in two weeks! :)

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    4. I do grant you that. I sometimes like to extrapolate when I respond.

      It would be nice if you continue to participate here, and even at my site, if you will. I eliminated the robot check.

      It's crazy why some make it so hard just to exchange views and engage in discourse, but that is life on the web.

      Here, I differ in some regards, and I think that is valued, rather than diminished.

      Have a good one!

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    5. Okay, I'll be around. Like The Detroit Spinners. :)

      Or this shit!

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xvKdRy4dmk

      Damn! They just don't make music like this any more, do they?

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    6. Reuven,

      it seems to me that thing to do is establish our agreements and work out from there in a thoughtful and friendly manner, if we want to understand one another.

      I know that you are good and thoughtful man and I do apologize to being rude to you in a comment from some days ago.

      You are, of course, correct that I am painting with a broad brush. As I have said many, many times, it's not that the progressive movement is anti-Semitic or anti-Zionist, but that the major venues for both of those sentiments today tends to come from the left.

      It is on the left that we find anti-Semitism becoming institutionalized via BDS. So, really, all I am trying to do is to get people such as yourself to consider something that is very uncomfortable.

      And what I want you to consider is this:

      The progressive movement, and the activist base of the Democratic Party, creates and supports venues that demonize and defame the Jewish state, thereby also creating hatred toward the Jewish people.

      That's it.

      You may disagree with the above entirely and honestly believe that the problem is really nothing more than a few Daily Kos bloggers.

      I disagree.

      No one who understands about the international delegitimization of Israel coming out of both Arab and western progressive propaganda, from all sorts of venues, would ever think that we are just dealing with a few hateful bloggers.

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    7. Jay, you are dating yourself, but that's ok.

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    8. Heh, I wasn't even even quite born yet when TSOP came out ('73), btw, but I sure remember it from Soul Train! :-D

      Ah, what ever happened to that great music?!

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    9. Yeah, did not figure you were that old, like some of us.

      The music went like a lot of things, to excess, and most of it lost its soul.

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    10. The soul's still there, man, it's just not on the radio! ;)

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xr38Q7pZuc4&feature=related

      Delete
  2. Volley, I see you continue to refer to us as "the hate site." That's just wrong. Take a fucking pill.

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    1. It's not just you, it's anyone who disagrees with him in any way. ;)

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  3. Stop quoting haters or sitting by when others do. You guys let some seriously deranged stuff pass. I mean look at Michaels crazy ass screed to me. I mean seriously. I get you folks are using hyperbole but if you are going to be hyperbolic expect to get called on it. Doodad... I am not the only one who things you guys have flipped the edge.

    You start calling out stuff from your side or be consistent I have no problem, but when you guys let shit like "Democrats are g-dless People" pass. Or "Ron Paul is a friend to Israel and Jews"... then guess what - you are a hate site.

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    1. You pretend that you call out stuff from "your" side, but where is it?

      You engage in screed no less, as your comments to me at your place amply evidence.

      At least Jay said something, to his credit, yet you ignored it.

      All because you misinterpreted my comment, likely because you have a tendency to make things personal.

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    2. No, that's not what makes a site a hate site and you know it. I've seen hate sites; this is not one. You may hate stuff that gets said; that's ok. But cut out the hyperbole. You are way too smart a guy to deal with stuff this way. You don't need to. Use your more than adequate rhetorical skills and we will all prosper from it.

      As for ignoring stuff, we are trying to be non-partisan. That means being more open to conflicting POV's. One can hardly espouse that then go ballistic when someone actually posts something you don't really buy.

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    3. Doodad,

      We are non-partisan and thank you for mentioning that.

      The thing of it is, tho, most of us were and / or are liberal Democrats. I was for a long time.

      So my inclination, at least, is to criticize my own movement. It's because the progressive-left has given up on universal human rights, and because it holds Israel to an ethereal standard, that it is the focus of my criticism.

      My suspicion is that you and School and Dan, and others, come from some place similar viz-a-viz our politics.

      We have not all landed in the same spot, but we all seem to have taken a kind of jump with parachutes open.

      {Something like that, I guess.}

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    4. "volleyboy1",

      You wrote:

      "You start calling out stuff from your side or be consistent I have no problem, but when you guys let shit like "Democrats are g-dless People" pass. Or "Ron Paul is a friend to Israel and Jews"... then guess what - you are a hate site."

      What are you talking about?

      The only things that I have seen expressed on this blog, and that I have seen endorsed by the posters, in general, on this blog, are, in some cases, things that are exactly opposite to, and are, in other cases, things that have nothing to do with, the things that you, in that statement that you have made, have accused of having been expressed on this blog, and that you, in that statement that you have made, have accused of having been endorsed by the posters, in general, on this blog.

      "Democrats are g-dless People"?

      What?

      Who, on this blog, made that statement that you have accused of having been made on this blog?

      How many of the regular posters on this blog have expressed that they care about anything having to do with the sentiment that is expressed in that statement that you have accused of having been made on this blog?

      "Ron Paul is a friend to Israel and Jews"?

      What?

      Who, on this blog, expressed that statement that you have accused of having been made on this blog?

      Who, on this blog, has expressed agreement with that perverse untrue statement that you have accused of having been made on this blog?

      You wrote: "your side"

      "Side"?

      "Your"?

      What you have referred to as being a "side", and what you have referred to as being a "side" which you have implied that you are not on, is the "side" on which are people who are opposing the propagating of genocidal libels against the national collective of the Jewish people.

      I see that you are viewing the situation as being about the holding of a self-identity view that you hold.

      The situation is not about the holding of a self-identity view. The situation is not about the defining of "who is Jewish", nor about the defining of "who isn't Jewish", nor about the defining of "who is a 'Good' 'Jew'", nor about the defining of "who is not a 'Good' Jew'", nor about the defining of "what is a 'Good' 'Jew'", nor about the defining of "what is not a 'Good' 'Jew'", nor about the case of who is an adherent of the ancestral religion of the Jewish people, nor about the case of who isn't an adherent of the ancestral religion of the Jewish people, nor about the case of who is theist, nor about the case of who isn't theist, nor about the defining of who is "Left-Wing", nor about the defining of who is "Right-Wing", nor about the defining of what is "Left-Wing", nor about the defining of what is "Right-Wing".

      The situation is about protecting from genocide the people of the nation of the Jewish people.

      The labels that you are holding are false, and the holding of those labels that you are holding is causing you to see perverse grotesque mirages - perverse grotesque mirages that are projections from your own mind.

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  4. If you don't think I ever call out people on the Left you are seriously delusional and have not read a thing I have ever written. Who the fuck do you think invented the term "MondoFront". The g-dammed tooth fairy?

    Seriously man, for you to say this:

    You pretend that you call out stuff from "your" side, but where is it?

    Where the fuck have you been for the last four years? Living under a rock? Jeebus.

    What a joke.

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    1. I am at your site and I see little such calling out, especially by you.

      Why must you be so nasty about everything?

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  5. Man, everyone needs to count to 10.....maybe even 20.

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    1. I have counted to 50, but it does not help where some are concerned.

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