Then it's time to cut bait (6+ / 0-)
The US will be blamed in any case.
I still have no idea why in the post Cold War world (other then for convenient domestic political posturing) Israel is an American ally.
Plastic People, Oh Baby Now, Yer sucha Draaaag
by jds1978 on Tue Feb 28, 2012 at 10:28:16 AM PST
This is your political movement, not mine.
And, yes, it is time to "cut bait." That is, it is long past time for Jews to throw the progressive movement, if not the Democratic Party, directly into the toilet which is precisely where it belongs.
Jews have to be the only people on the planet who believe that they have a moral obligation to support a political movement that works directly against their own well-being. It's disgusting. The progressive-left is the home to anti-Semitic anti-Zionists, so how can it possibly be our home, as well?
It can't.
I say that we cut bait immediately.
It is long past time to move on.
The Daily Kos crowd is too busy trying to show its cred to be taken as serious, starting with Mr. Coaster himself.
ReplyDeleteIt does reflect, however, a situation of which Pavlov would be proud.
As usual at dKos, the most recc'd comments are severely anti-Israel. Oh how they love to hate Israel.
ReplyDeleteAnd, as usual, they are smearing Israel for an attack that has been talked about for over 10 years and still hasn't happened. Gullible, thy name is Kossack.
The progressive movement is diseased.
DeleteIn case you needed more proof of that
Deletehttp://www.occupyaipac.org/2012/02/10-reasons-why-the-israel-lobby-aipac-is-so-dangerous/
CAP screws up again:
ReplyDelete"The co-author of a provocative report on “Islamophobia” has ties to a Muslim Brotherhood-affiliated organization and is the host of a website known for trafficking in radical, anti-Israel propaganda.
Wajahat Ali is a self described “playwright, essayist, and attorney.” He is also the co-author of “Fear Inc.: The Roots of the Islamophobia Network in America,” a Center for American Progress-sponsored report that purports to expose the “small, tightly networked group of misinformation experts” on the right who aim to reach “millions of Americans through effective advocates, media partners, and grass-roots organizing.”
In the 132 page report, Ali and his cohorts at CAP attempt to take a scholarly approach to Islamophobia, building the case that a small faction of well-funded right-wing activists are solely responsible for perpetuating pernicious stereotypes about American Muslims. A number of critics have objected to the report as misleading.
Ali, however, has long aligned himself with a cadre of radical commentators who routinely condemn Zionism and attack the state of Israel as racist....“Short of a convicted terrorist, it’s hard to imagine a co-author who more undermines the report’s credibility on this subject—not to mention that this report will have zero impact on any policy on the Hill,” said a Capitol Hill source who requested anonymity. “If anything, Mr. Ali’s presence on this supposedly academic document may have the exact opposite reaction they’re looking for.”
A senior official at a major American Jewish organization called Ali’s association with the report “shocking.”
“They need to make a total break from the anti-Israel propaganda and the anti-Israel propagandists in their midst,” said the source, who asked not to be named. “By continuing to promote anti-Israel ideologues and their hatred of Israel, CAP is delegitimizing their own voice from being a major player in the Washington public policy arena.”
The source added: “I think that CAP, as the go-to think tank of the Obama administration, should take a deep breath and stop opining and spreading anti-Israel dogma.”...."
http://freebeacon.com/cap-islamophobia-report-hijacked/
Dershowitz has also spoken out against Media Matters and CAP.
ReplyDeletehttp://antisemitism.org.il/article/70045/alan-dershowitz-media-matters-center-american-progress-%E2%80%98david-duke-extreme-left%E2%80%99
He must be doing something right, as Mondoweiss has stepped in to oppose him.
http://mondoweiss.net/2012/02/dershowitz-wants-mj-rosenberg-fired.html
Y'know, I'm not sure what to make of this story exactly.
DeleteThe Dershowitz piece seemed to suggest that while Media Matters is closely associated with the White House, it also is a forum friendly to anti-Semitic anti-Zionists.
Is that a fair characterization?
If true, it basically validates the very thesis of this blog.
I have never implied it is not a problem, but maintain it is better to fight it from within rather than give up on the Democrats.
DeleteThe Republicans stand for more than support for Israel, and I think that must also play here.
Since America supports Israel, it seems most important to me to expose the anti-Israel and antisemitic sentiments of those within the Democratic ranks.
I understand.
DeleteAnd, believe me, the very last thing that I expect is for Jewish people to run screaming out of the Democratic Party.
Reforming the party and calling out the anti-Zionists within it, and within the progressive movement, is important.
I've simply taken the next step in that I am willing to say that Jewish people should dump the progressive movement and give the Dems a hiatus.
I just do not want to see us taken for granted by the party.
I just now scanned Media Matters and found no mention of Israel on either the front page or the blog. So I would regard Dershowitz's charge is not proven.
ReplyDeleteDershowitz seems to have more support than indicated.
DeleteThere is also this regarding CAP:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/center-for-america-progress-group-tied-to-obama-accused-of-anti-semitic-language/2012/01/17/gIQAcrHXAQ_print.html
http://www.jpost.com/International/Article.aspx?id=252605
http://cifwatch.com/2012/01/26/cap-report-on-islamophobia-co-authored-by-writer-sympathetic-to-antisemites-muslim-brotherhood/
Wow, os26 (reply does not work for me). Now I know why I couldn't find the evidence - they purged it.
ReplyDeleteThe only question left is, are they fixing this or hiding it? Looks like, some of both.
Can someone help, CAP I understand, but the only thing I can find on mediamatters is that Soros is a contributor. Is there something more?
ReplyDeleteUnderstand what?
DeleteStuart,
Deletethere is also the little matter of Media Matters, an organization with a close relationship with the White House, has hired MJ Rosenberg, an anti-Semite and Israel hater, as their Senior Fellow on foreign affairs and the Middle East.
If you want to learn more about Rosenberg he is regularly published at the Huff Post. Also Matt and Zach of the HuffPost Monitor write about him regularly.
"Media Matters Firsters
DeleteJewish federations under fire for providing money to anti-Israel group.....Several of the nation’s most preeminent Jewish charities are facing criticism for donating hundreds of thousands of dollars to MMFA....“Sadly, Federations around the country are largely in the hands of secular liberals who have little sense of what’s actually Jewish, much less what’s pro-Israel,” said Michael Steinberg, a Maryland resident who stopped contributing to the Washington Federation for these reasons...."
http://freebeacon.com/media-matters-firsters/
Gee Doodad,
DeleteI thought the entire problem was just a few cranks on Daily Kos??
Have you heard about Baroness Jihad Jenny Tonge? She resigned from her party after rejecting an ultimatum from her party to apologize for her remarks alongside Ken O Keefe who you posted about recently. Seems she AND O Keefe will be investigated by the police. It's a start but man, there are a lot of 'em in Britain.
Deletehttp://www.israellycool.com/2012/02/29/the-undoing-of-jihad-jenny/
So let me see if I have this right... Ten people - Nine of whom are douchenozzles (including Neo-Nazi Diane Gee) at a website say that we should end our alliance with Israel and that means that anti-Zionist, anti-Semitic memes are indicative of all thought in the progressive movement? I mean, somehow these Ten individuals speak for all of us.
ReplyDeleteYET.... you have encouraged us to support Republicans in this election cycle and they are running a candidate who has ties to Neo-Nazi organizations and polls 12-15% (and higher) in primaries. And has a front runner that believes in converting Holocaust survivors away from Judaism.
Somehow, in some universe, a bunch of cranks who call themselves "progressives" (but who really support REPUBLICAN Ron Paul) are indicitive of Democratic acceptance of hate, as opposed to the Republican mainstream candidates who actually espouse hate and disrespect for the Jewish people.
Forgive me but... How exactly does this make sense?
Volley,
DeleteYou are not even close to having the argument right.
I wrote another response, but deleted it because I am not looking to engage in a conflict.
DeleteI will say, however, that I believe your orientation is oversimplified and narrow. Your comment misstates facts as well.
As such, it is understandable that what is being discussed would not make sense to you.
That does not mean it is invalid by any means, just invalid to you.
Oh well then who should we be suggesting folks vote for in November? I mean if the Democratic party is overrun by crazed "progressives" perhaps we should look at the Republicans as you suggest. I mean their party only has a base of about 15% or so who vote for a guy with actual Neo-Nazi ties and their front runner advocates post mortem conversions of Jews (Daniel Pearl is the latest one) to his religion. Oh and their second place guy sends out Chanukah cards with a quote about Jesus being the "Light and the Way".
ReplyDeleteThose are the people who represent the party that you so gleefully point out is gaining Jewish support. That Michael, is the reality of your telling Jews to NOT vote Democratic in November and that is what we are looking at in terms of this election.
Are there asshole anti-Semites in the Progressive Movement? Yeah there are. Hey guess what though, that movement has very little influence with the Democratic Party - witness their bitching at FDL or DKos regarding President Obama.
Is it acceptable that they are there - NO. So, as Democrats it is our job to "shut them down" and marginalize them.
At the same time I notice you seem to gloss over just what the Republican Mainstream is doing. I mean where are your condemnations regarding their hateful behavior? We keep hearing from you what good buddies they are wrt Jews and Israel but their actions and beliefs betray that. Will you be condemning them as well? If not, what exactly are you suggesting? That we as a group of people vote for those that distinctly stand against the Jewish People?
If you wish to honestly engage my thesis then you must start by engaging this statement:
DeleteThe progressive movement, and the activist base of the Democratic Party, creates and supports venues that demonize and defame the Jewish state, thereby also creating hatred toward the Jewish people.
This statement is either true or it is false.
If you want honest engagement then this is where you start, otherwise you're just playing with yourself, VB.
LOL Michael - forget it... Have fun with your buddies Ron "I am pals with Stormfront" Paul, Mitt "Hey look, there's another Dead Jew we can convert" Romney, Rick "Go Jesus - we can convert those heathen Jews" Santorum, and Newt "Let's give Al-Qaeda backed Syrian rebels more weapons" Gingrich.
ReplyDeleteKeep your own framing here but remember these are the guys you keep on pimping for. Have fun supporting that. Remember this Michael... there is a lot more to being pro-Israel and pro-Jewish than just supporting the hateful messages of the ECI and RJC.
Have fun buddy!
I have to say, VB, you are exceedingly rude.
DeleteYou came onto this blog misrepresenting my argument and asking me if your misrepresentation was correct.
I assured you that it was not and that if you honestly want to discuss what we have been discussing here, you would need to start with the initial assertion.
The progressive movement, and the activist base of the Democratic Party, creates and supports venues that demonize and defame the Jewish state, thereby also creating hatred toward the Jewish people.
That's the initial assertion. It is from that assertion that the rest of it naturally flows.
Now, does this mean that I intend to vote for the Republican nominee?
I might, but I have not made that decision, yet.
Unlike you, I do not despise Republicans any more than I despise Democrats. I simply do not share your hatred and bigotry toward the GOP.
In fact, I have to say, one of the most liberating things about going non-partisan is allowing oneself to listen to the other side and cease dehumanizing those people.
If you want to understand them, then you cannot approach them with hostility... as you do.
And if you do not wish to understand them, just why should anyone listen to your views on those people?
This is just as you did yesterday in that diary about allies.
DeleteCan you engage without disparaging others?
Must you invariably act like a child and bait others?
I once imagined you had something to say, but now see how I was mistaken.
The funny thing is that we never, or virtually never, even mention the Republican candidates here.
DeleteThere was Mimi's piece, which I was happy to publish, but that was it.
Heck, perhaps I'll vote Republican entirely out of spite!
:O)
The JEWISH Lobby? Not the Israel Lobby? Et tu Friedman?
ReplyDelete"In Egypt, every day it becomes clearer that the Army has used the Tahrir uprising to get rid of its main long-term rival for succession — President Hosni Mubarak’s more reform-minded son, Gamal. Now, having gotten rid of both father and son, the Army is showing its real hand by prosecuting American, European and Egyptian democracy workers for allegedly working with “foreign agents” — the C.I.A., Israel and the Jewish lobby — to destabilize Egypt. This is a patently fraudulent charge, but one meant to undermine the democrats demanding that the Army step aside."
http://www.yourish.com/2012/02/29/15859
Of course you never want to mention Republicans on your site here. I wouldn't be particularly proud of supporting that crowd either if I were you.
ReplyDeleteHey and voting for them out of spite... EXCELLENT. Vote for a repeal of Roe v. Wade, destruction of the environment, the continuation of the erosion of the social safety net, increased societal burden on the Middle Class and a host of other issues just to piss me and one or two other people off.
That makes sense.
You guys make them look better and better every day.
DeleteVolley.....sorry to see you were labelled a right winger over at dKos by those carrying water for Iran. I know it bugs me when it happens to me (and us here.) Still, kudos for the fight even if stuff is strained here.
ReplyDeletePS, you don't look a THING like Dick Cheney.
So, what do you think, Doodad?
DeleteShould we vote Republican this November?
I've never voted Republican before.
I bet it feels goooood.
:O)
But but but.... I don't the world to end!!!! I just subscribed to HBO.....and stuff.
DeleteI'm thinking Santorum.
DeleteI want to vote for the most extreme right-wing Republican conservative fascist available... but the supply seems sadly limited.
I betcha Gingrich wouldn't hold a secret meeting with the Muslim Brotherhood before helping to pave the way for their ascension in Egyptian politics.
Or, how about Nixon?
If only someone could dig up Nixon and roll him out in a wheelbarrow.
He'd get my vote!
I agree with Doodad's comment. No one should have to take the type of behavior they throw at DKos to anyone that stands up for Israel, decency, and a full examination, rather trying to outdo one another in political correctness, except when it comes to this matter.
DeleteThere are better things to do than get into it with the likes of these types. Seems to me they crave the attention and the opportunity to make things personal.
I would suggest that it's easier just to ignore those that insult or provoke. If I do respond to another's initial comment, I deal with the subject matter. I will point out bias when I believe it is evident. Make the point, offer a response or two, and be done. The last one to insult is generally the bigger loser.
I also think its a mistake to make every difference into a major battle. Especially with those who cannot hear and will never be satisfied.
Even against the odds and the unjustifiable actions, it is not necessary to go down into petty gratuities. That was one credo of Obama I totally agree with.
FWIW