Wednesday, November 28, 2012

Official: Palestine established on PM, Lieberman's watch

Mike L. 
Day before UN expected to approve non-member state status for Palestinians, top Israeli official says 'when Lieberman butts heads with Abbas, this is the result.' Another official says Israel 'weaker in international arena'

"A Palestinian state was established on Netanyahu and Lieberman's watch. It will be inscribed forever in the name of Netanyahu and Lieberman," a senior Israeli official said Wednesday, a day before the UN General Assembly is expected to vote on a Palestinian bid for recognition as a non-member observer state.

The entire political establishment agrees that the Palestinian bid, which is expected to pass, constitutes a major defeat for Israel. "(Prime Minister Benjamin) Netanyahu and (Foreign Minister Avigdor) Lieberman boasted in the UN last year that the 'moral majority' of Western states are cooperating with Israel. Now it turns out that the Palestinians not only have an automatic majority, they also have the support of Western countries Israel could not recruit in its favor," one official said.
I am not exactly sure just what to make of all this, yet, but I do not know that it really reflects much on either Netanyahu or Lieberman.  The fact of the matter is that the Palestinians have an automatic majority in the General Assembly and, therefore, could do this no matter the Israeli leadership.

The implication seems to be that if only Lieberman or Netanyahu were somehow nicer to Mahmoud Abbas then this would not be happening, but that's always the way of things in western minds around the Arab-Israel conflict.   No matter what happens, it's Israel's fault.

The real question, tho, is what are the consequences for this move?  The UN will recognize "Palestine" as a "non-member state"?  So, it will be a state without borders, but with the ability to bring suit against Israel before the United Nations.  But if it is a state, then it will also have responsibilities and can more easily be held to account for failure to live up to those responsibilities.  Responsibilities such as, for example, seeing to it that factions under Palestinian sovereignty do not shoot rockets into Israel.

There is also the huge question around the split between Hamas and Fatah.  If the UN grants "Palestine" status as a state, does that include the Gaza strip?  It would have to, no?  Will this force a reconciliation between the two terrorist groups or will they go to war with one another?  I'm guessing the former.  In either case, let the defenestrations begin!

Also, this would seem to kill off the Israeli right's desire for Greater Israel.  I mean, how can Israel possibly annex Judea and Samaria if large swaths of those areas constitute "Palestine"?

Perhaps Israel should look at this as an opportunity to move beyond the status quo.  What I think that Israel should probably do... and I say this with considerable tentativeness, because there's an awful lot of moving parts here... is take this as an opportunity to declare its own final borders.  If the Palestinians do not wish to negotiate final borders then let Israel, after "Palestine" is recognized as a "non-member state," declare its own final borders and be the first country to welcome the newly formed state of Palestine into the community of nations.

Of course this should mean that they get none of Jerusalem and can use beautiful downtown Ramallah for the headquarters of whatever vicious criminal-terrorist government that they sling together.

{Good-bye.  And good luck with that, fellahs.}


  1. Semi-O/T, but I'm surprised a Princeton U. web page forgot to include the first US Secretary of Defense, James Forrestal, on that list. A huge chunk of their campus is named after him! They included Garry Hoy, so self-defenestration is clearly considered fit for inclusion as well.

    Ah, anyway. Apologies for the digression...

    1. Also, the most famous in my opinion. When Detective Axel Foley was escorted out the window of a Beverly Hills office building by Victor Maitland's underlings in 1984. I think they made a movie about that. ;)

  2. And now seriously...

    "What I think that Israel should probably do... and I say this with considerable tentativeness, because there's an awful lot of moving parts here... is take this as an opportunity to declare its own final borders."

    I think this is the way to go, as well, but I am not an expert on these issues nor do I play one on the internet. What are the reasonable objections to this from our side, if any? I'd like to look into them.

    I don't really see any other way to end the Palestinian leadership's permanent veto over things?

    1. Well, the main objection would relate to the Gaza withdrawal and how unilateral action there preceded all those rocket attacks.

      Basically this gives Israel two options. It can still hold out for a negotiated end of hostilities or it can take matters into its own hands.

      I recommend the latter, because the former has been proven empty via the demise of Oslo and the simple fact that the Palestinians have no intention whatsoever of agreeing to a state for themselves in peace next to the Jewish one.

      That should be clear by now, don't you think?

      One thing that I do not understand about the Jewish left's clinging to Oslo is that they seem not to recognize that Oslo is over.

      {It is over, isn't it?}

    2. Seems clear to me, at least.

      And yeah, I figured the example of Gaza would be one of the objections. Perhaps I'm just a hopeless dreamer, but I'd like to think that once there is officially a Palestinian state, the 'world community' would be less tolerant of its being used as a base for terror attacks against its neighbor.

      But yeah, I know. Sigh...

  3. "Why I Don't Want A Palestinian State

    Every time hostilities erupt in the Levant, and quite a lot of the rest of the time too, I get the dubious pleasure of witnessing the same set of stale arguments about the Israeli Palestinian conflict. First, some crazy leftie starts babbling about Zionist war crimes, land grabs, settlements and, if he’s feeling excitable, genocide and holocausts, after which a hefty section of the crowd bursts out into riotous applause. Then some respectable-looking conservative says we have to remember that Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East and that Hamas is a terrorist organisation which deliberately targets civilians, after which a rather smaller section of the crowd, mostly composed of Jews desperately (and pathetically) happy that someone doesn’t think they are all a bunch of organ- stealing demons, tries to get a few cheers going. Then a centrist, effortlessly channeling respectable opinion, says that while, of course, Israel has right to defend itself it is not doing so proportionately and, further, it’s being pretty beastly with those awful settlements, but that, in any case, the main thing is that both sides put aside their differences and resentments and come to an equitable deal.....The reason I don’t want a Palestinian state is because they will make a big fat mess of it....." Pretty funny!

    Read it all

    1. Thanks. I guess my main concern is that I just don't want Israel to be responsible for the messes created by the Palestinian leadership anymore, and I don't see why they should continue to have to be.

      Give them a state, let them work out the issues with their Arab neighbor states who really do subject their Palestinian populations to apartheid conditions... and as far as security matters go, if attacks continue on Israel from Palestine, then they should be dealt with the same way any other country in the world would handle acts of war committed against it by a foreign country. No more complications on that count.

      From the article -

      "One meme used repeatedly in both Gaza wars has been to emphasize how, at the same time as sending over F16s with bombs, Israel has also been providing the Palestinians with free food, water, electricity, gas and all the other essentials of life; this is intended, I suppose, to emphasize how humane the Israeli military is, which may be true enough; what the people who piously circulate this information don’t seem to realize is how it demonstrates what a completely ridiculous position Israel has got itself into."

      Definitely agree with that part. I guess I see such unilateral action as the only way out of that ridiculous position. Only my personal opinion from thousands of miles away, of course.